Concern: Content and Classes

[Frein]

Originally Posted by Heinel

A better solution would be to do away with tanks. Actually, get rid of tank/nuke/heal and we're golden.

One of the things I liked so much about GW is that any class combination can work, provided you know what you're doing.

And demolish the traditional party? No thanks. When everyone can do everything, you no longer depend on other people and we get a SPMMORPG (single player massively multiplayer online role playing game), which is like the dumbest concept for a game ever.

[CPK1]

Originally Posted by Frein

And demolish the traditional party? No thanks. When everyone can do everything, you no longer depend on other people and we get a SPMMORPG (single player massively multiplayer online role playing game), which is like the dumbest concept for a game ever.

I think that first paragraph was a joke.

[Frein]

Originally Posted by CPK1

I think that first paragraph was a joke.

Considering the second paragraph supports the first one, I highly doubt it.

[Arvalo85]

I played L2 for nearly 4 years and i can say this with no doubt in my mind and i am very happy about it: AION IS NOT L2. So far from the information at hand they are nothing alike aside from the castle sieges. Aion Looks and plays Nothing like L2. Lineage had SOOO many unused classes because of 3rd party programs and boxing. People stopped playing support classes pretty much altogeather because you didnt need them when sombody in your party had one running on walker buffing you out of the group. This was a horrible reality for anybody that spent a long period of time making one of those toons early on. From what ive seen is the developers of Aion are taking the best aspects of many MMO's and are carefully making them their own with little tweaks.

In doing so it makes Aion an MMO like yet unlike any other out there atm. So i wish people would stop comparing it to L2. or even wow for that matter.

[Lt.Dan]

Well, I think comparisons to L2 are valid considering the fact it was developed by the same company, it has many things in common. I mean, c'mon, if you look at some of the skills for the classes they're the exact same thing as Lineage 2 or probably even Lineage for that matter (dunno for sure never played it.) Not to mention they have the same exact basic classes, just without as much variation because of the fact that L2's racial difference in similar archtypes. I'm probably asking a question here nobody can answer since none/very few of us here have actually ever played the game. I was just bringing up a concern. But again, I do think it's valid to compare the game to Lineage 2, or even WoW (it does look similar in the way characters control, other than that however, I wouldn't compare it.) I'll just have to wait and see and play for myself. Thanks for all the input, I appreciate it.

One thing I would like to add. The whole Stigma concept is an interesting one which could definitely set this game apart, which I failed to mention before, so hopefully that will be implemented well.

[Calindor]

Originally Posted by Lt.Dan

Well, I think comparisons to L2 are valid considering the fact it was developed by the same company, it has many things in common. I mean, c'mon, if you look at some of the skills for the classes they're the exact same thing as Lineage 2 or probably even Lineage for that matter (dunno for sure never played it.) Not to mention they have the same exact basic classes, just without as much variation because of the fact that L2's racial difference in similar archtypes. I'm probably asking a question here nobody can answer since none/very few of us here have actually ever played the game. I was just bringing up a concern. But again, I do think it's valid to compare the game to Lineage 2, or even WoW (it does look similar in the way characters control, other than that however, I wouldn't compare it.) I'll just have to wait and see and play for myself. Thanks for all the input, I appreciate it.

One thing I would like to add. The whole Stigma concept is an interesting one which could definitely set this game apart, which I failed to mention before, so hopefully that will be implemented well.

haha I just realized after reading this, that

Originally Posted by Calindor

L2's 35 classes really break down into just summoner, tank, gladiator, dagger, archer, healer, buffer, mage and whatever you want to call the useless kamael..they are all just different variants (builds) of the same style class

Are Aion's classes, so basically Aion's classes = L2's, Aion's just wont be as varied in builds. For example L2 has 3 archers, Dark elf = glass cannon, huge attack damage, slow attack speed, fast run speed, low crit rate, some debuffs. Elf archers are also glass cannons, but have low damage, huge crit rate, fast run speed, debuffs. Humans are in the middle, they have some tanking ability, they have the middle of damage, crit rate and attack speed, but no debuffs, instead they have a few self-buffs. At end game, the dark elf archer gets a skill that increases his range and damage dramatically, but decreases attack speed and run speed...so you use this when defending something from far away. Elf archers get a skill that increases their attack speed, crit rate dramatically, but decreases their range, so the are best in close range PvP. Humans get a skill that increases everything, range, attack speed, damage crit rate, but it roots them to the ground for the duration...its good for defending a castle when you are up on the wall or something, but its mostly used in PvE, cause it sucks being stuck to the ground...

So that gives you an idea of how L2's classes are varied. of those classes in the quote above there are like 4 summoners, 4 tanks, 5 gladiator styles (all completely different, from dual swords, to polearms, to fist weapons, to 2hswords/blunts, to rapiers), 3 dagger (or assassin style classes), 3 archers, 4 healers (although some also can be primary buffers aswell), 4 buffers (2 are bard style), 4 mages, and that leaves the dwarves and one of the kamaels i cant think of...So really L2 just has unique builds of all the same classes Aion does.

[Lt.Dan]

Originally Posted by Calindor

haha I just realized after reading this, that



Are Aion's classes, so basically Aion's classes = L2's, Aion's just wont be as varied in builds. For example L2 has 3 archers, Dark elf = glass cannon, huge attack damage, slow attack speed, fast run speed, low crit rate, some debuffs. Elf archers are also glass cannons, but have low damage, huge crit rate, fast run speed, debuffs. Humans are in the middle, they have some tanking ability, they have the middle of damage, crit rate and attack speed, but no debuffs, instead they have a few self-buffs. At end game, the dark elf archer gets a skill that increases his range and damage dramatically, but decreases attack speed and run speed...so you use this when defending something from far away. Elf archers get a skill that increases their attack speed, crit rate dramatically, but decreases their range, so the are best in close range PvP. Humans get a skill that increases everything, range, attack speed, damage crit rate, but it roots them to the ground for the duration...its good for defending a castle when you are up on the wall or something, but its mostly used in PvE, cause it sucks being stuck to the ground...

So that gives you an idea of how L2's classes are varied. of those classes in the quote above there are like 4 summoners, 4 tanks, 5 gladiator styles (all completely different, from dual swords, to polearms, to fist weapons, to 2hswords/blunts, to rapiers), 3 dagger (or assassin style classes), 3 archers, 4 healers (although some also can be primary buffers aswell), 4 buffers (2 are bard style), 4 mages, and that leaves the dwarves and one of the kamaels i cant think of...So really L2 just has unique builds of all the same classes Aion does.

Haha, thank you for elaborating on what I was too lazy to elaborate on. I mean, that's basically my point, but hopefully the game will shine in other areas so that won't matter. We will just have to wait and see.

[Marchosias]

Well, I've written pretty big walls about this... (Cal, you might remember some vaguely ) Basically, what I've found is that the more classes you have the less varied the play style of each class is. You might have minor alterations in them, but then there's really only one play style, or one strength that each class has. What I would prefer to see is having a smaller number of classes that have different ways to build them, be it through selecting which skills you use (like a guild wars type of thing, or D2 where you either have the skill or you don't), or even a talent system. I realize any of these systems would bear a resemblance to WoW, which a lot of people will instantly see as a bad thing, but I think it's one of many things the game, for all its faults, actually does right.

Now, there's a tendency in WoW for class specializations to fall under the cookie-cutter PvP spec and the PvE spec, which I think is generally a bad thing and why talents wouldn't be the best way to go imo. Instead, I'd love to see a D2 style specialization where you commit to skills and boost those, and anything you don't put points into you don't even have available. What this kind of system does is allows you to have only 8 classes, but then have a number of viable builds for each class, where you're using different abilities at different times and you have a more unique experience. Each class, however, has the same overall feel, and since you would presumably be able to change your spec (for some fee, of course) you wouldn't have to roll a completely new character to get a slight variation on the general play style you already have. That's my take on the issue.

[Heinel]

Originally Posted by Frein

And demolish the traditional party? No thanks. When everyone can do everything, you no longer depend on other people and we get a SPMMORPG (single player massively multiplayer online role playing game), which is like the dumbest concept for a game ever.

Actually it isn't the case that everyone can do everything. It's all about customization, Aion has potential in stigmas in that department. The traditional party also did not get demolished. Tank nuke heal is still the way pugs are, it's just that there are other options for advanced players.

Now I also do not believe that a change in mechanic that drastic will happen to Aion at this point, but I'd hope that at least waiting for a tank wouldn't be absolutely necessary, and that maybe a gladiator or earth spiritmaster can shift their roles to fill that spot when necessary.

[Calindor]

Yeah I agree March...I dont like the cookie cutter build...Personally I think Diablo 2 has the best build system of any (MMO)RPG for builds. You can make a good char out of any build on D2. I love the skill points and synergies system and having to plan out your build in advance. However there should be a (costly) way to respec.

[Frein]

Originally Posted by Calindor

Yeah I agree March...I dont like the cookie cutter build...Personally I think Diablo 2 has the best build system of any (MMO)RPG for builds. You can make a good char out of any build on D2. I love the skill points and synergies system and having to plan out your build in advance. However there should be a (costly) way to respec.

No no, respecing should be affordable or you'll never want to experiment with new things. Cookie cutter specs will appear no matter what you do, they existed in D2, they existed in WoW and they will always exist in any game where you're allowed to customize your character's abilities.

[Osiris]

I do feel that there is a lack of content, but hey didn't ncsoft want Aion to appeal to the "casual gamer".

This game sadly is looking less tactical and in-depth everytime I come back here for an Aion update.

First off: There are so few classes. Yes I know! Ive read a few discussions allready, so I dont need to hear how having too many classes creates OP and UP classes. It's crap tbh, all it does is make the game more complicated, tactical, and diverse. I mean come on' how complicated are raids and mass pvp gonna be with this current set-up? Or pvp in general even?
Organization will be way less a factor here for sure, but these certainly do make the game way more casual friendly.

Secondly: RvR only PvP system. I shouldnt even get into how this simplifies a game. If you don't know then this is prolly the game for you. (not that its necessarily a bad thing).

Third concern: Can't talk to the opposing race. I know it goes along with the stereo-typical RvR system, but that doesn't mean they have to make Aion that way. I'm just hoping that at higher lvls players are forced into pvp. Having the option to hunt primarily in safe zones is carebear as it gets tbh.

[eVenom]

I don't see the point in rezing another topic for quite a while ago, but there's been a rez fest lately.

1st: There isn't a need for more classes. 2 for each class tier is fine, and not because it would be annoying to balance them or anything. It just isn't needed because stigmas can redefine classes much more than they normally are. There are already good roles in Aion; there are organized tank classes, DPS classes, nukers, healing, support, etc, so we don't exactly need more classes for the heck of it. Some games only have 3-4 classes, so 8 is enough for me, at least at launch. There is enough individuality in Aion, and more classes won't change much.

2nd: Makes sense. You can only fight the opposite race in the abyss. Wanna know why? Because they hate each other, and each side needs to unite their forces to fend off the others. You can duel or even go to certain areas where you can fight anyone who enters it, just like an arena (L2).

3rd: Sadly, this is not L2. This thing has been complained about by most L2 fans, and it fits the game's lore and it also reflects the reality of separation by race. And alot of people are pver's, so please don't call them carebears and such as if they are weak or babies. You can't play Aion if you just want pvp. It's just not possible with the way they set it up.

I can tell you are a L2 fan, so that's why I get slightly annoyed because they say the exact same things over and over.

[Chaos_Theory]

Originally Posted by eVenom

Snip

Quoted for Epic Truth.

THIS IS NOT L2

At Osiris you obviously have no clue what Carebear is by the sound of your post.