lvl 40

[Kazuhiro]

GOD HOW I MISS THE L2 GRIND! *joke... VERY BIG JOKE*

2 months to level 40? Well you have to consider the fact that it is closed beta so there are a LIMITED amount people in a hunting area. Just think of all the people hunting in an area or waiting for a quest mob when AION goes live. From past screen shot experiences on a private L2 server you HAD to line up for the quest mob needed to class change into a rouge. LOL.

On a side note... I hate crafting just to see it FAIL... (Lineage 2 blow me.) All that time farming just to watch it fail kinda QQ. For farming areas god i hope a PK system is implemented so that you can kill your own factions. I needs my mobs mengs. And just to regulate those chinese farmers personally. Nothing like saving the world with your own hands =)

[eVenom]

In the latest interview they said they will make sure that crafting is viable and not just "there". I usually don't craft, but I find it slightly more interesting in Aion, so I'll give it a shot. I don't have a problem leveling to max level in 3-4 months, but I don't expect to do a whole lot of stuff but that. Not much crafting or anything, but just pvp and leveling since this is the main thing I'm going for.

[Intaki]

We don't know what he/she have accomplish more then hit lvl 40. He maybe just lvl all the time, and not explore outside the area he hunt in. Maybe not lvl craft anything. He maybe havn't pvp. So is maybe hard to say if is too long or too short time to lvl till vl 40 on 2-3months.

[Grobyc]

Originally Posted by Shmak

Gotta love these people complaining about a couple months of character development. Obviously they never touched EQ1 or L2. Those games took years to max out your first char. Its no wonder the same people turn around "Omgz leveling doesn't mean anything anymore!" Please save the griping. As hard as it is to understand, the longer the game takes, the more worthwhile the end seems.

Botting, Powerleveling, and other design flaws aside, players will respect a long leveling process. If the game is fun, the leveling process is pretty irrelevant. You only get into problems when the reward cycle is too far skewed to one side. WoW and L2's rewards are end game focused, hence the pling/botting. EQ was the reverse - its beginning and mid game were fun, but the end game content was bugged and crappy until months or years after it went live (for every expansion, not to mention the original end game, which was also buggy as hell).

But you do have to choose between end game content or leveling content. Most people take the prior because you can actually develop that as time goes on. Leveling is just leveling, you can do quest after quest which will bound to have repeats because people run out of ideas or whatnot, not to mention that the Aion universe can only be so big and if they make it too big, no one will ever see each other while running around except in towns. The reason why I say you have to choose one is pretty simple. There is only a very few people out there who are willing to spend years to reach max level and even if they did, then what? I doubt devs will go out and make content for people who hit max level when only so few people got there. Then that only furthers the problem because people won't have a goal because even when they hit max level, there's nothing else to do.

Originally Posted by eVenom

It only matters what people want; I don't care if it takes years to max out my character; in fact, I don't want it to. If NCsoft saw that most people wanted to take years to max their character out with higher-than-average-play time, then they would make it like EQ, but they didn't. And no, the longer the game is doesn't mean it will be better. WoW was horrible for than, just completely horrible. All I did was grind rep after rep, and it didn't work for me. So NCsoft is trying to make the game appeal to the biggest audience it can, and I doubt that audience wants to focus on 1 character for 3 years. Hey, not that it's impossible; with a few expansions, they could pull it off, but by that time I'd have multiple characters. So let people wine and complain, because these people shape the market and fuel the demand for a new generation of games.

I agree, very few people will even want to spend all that time level a toon. However, on your statement on WoW, rep grinding was only one of the things to do after reaching max level. It was an option, simply that, otherwise, you could just sit around in Ironforge/Ogrimmar/Shattrath all day like everyone else who either didn't want to farm it or farmed it already. I hardly call rep grinding as one of the focuses for max level.

[Untrackable]

Originally Posted by Kazuhiro

GOD HOW I MISS THE L2 GRIND! *joke... VERY BIG JOKE*

2 months to level 40? Well you have to consider the fact that it is closed beta so there are a LIMITED amount people in a hunting area. Just think of all the people hunting in an area or waiting for a quest mob when AION goes live. From past screen shot experiences on a private L2 server you HAD to line up for the quest mob needed to class change into a rouge. LOL.

On a side note... I hate crafting just to see it FAIL... (Lineage 2 blow me.) All that time farming just to watch it fail kinda QQ. For farming areas god i hope a PK system is implemented so that you can kill your own factions. I needs my mobs mengs. And just to regulate those chinese farmers personally. Nothing like saving the world with your own hands =)

Whoa whoa whoa...

This is exactly what will kill the game (in my opinion). Maybe some slight competition would be nice for a mob, but having to wait in line? By making people wait you slow the game in an "unnatural" way. Everyone goes through their lives waiting for something (mostly the paycheck heh), so when I log on I don't want to have to sit behind 6 other people to kill a rat so I can get my [Boots +1].

I understand that you don't want it to be too easy to hit max level, but by making it into such a grind as L2, the game will drive away a major number of potential subscribers. Being Max level is no fun if you're practically alone.

[Shmak]

I assume you mean developers have to make a choice. I disagree. Why would nearly every game in the genre incorporate both and not simply eliminate one side making things a whole lot easier? Its because they are not choosing one or the other, they are emphasizing one or the other to make the right balance for the playerbase and the game they've created.

The problem with the long leveling time is that, its generally boring to solo exp on stupid AI. Making AI smarter is somewhat out of the question, so devs look for other ways to improve. WoW attempts to address this issue with a shorter leveling commitment, since they are unwilling to forbid their players the ability to solo (hence the focus on end game and the current reduced time trend). EQ and FFXI have much longer character development, but their core mechanics revolve around group PvE, which is generally more fun than solo PvE.

Originally Posted by Grobyc

I agree, very few people will even want to spend all that time level a toon.

How long is the longest you've ever played one MMORPG? One year? Two? Four? So why is character development that takes longer than 5 months so hard to swallow? All I'm saying is, rewards are meaningless without perspective. End game items that are acquired after a year of playing mean a hell of a lot more to me than some crap that everyone is bound to get if they play for two weeks, because really all your doing by shortening the character development is pushing cars through the same wash twice as fast. Sure, more cars will get washed, but its gonna be a crappy job.

[Grobyc]

Originally Posted by Shmak

How long is the longest you've ever played one MMORPG? One year? Two? Four? So why is character development that takes longer than 5 months so hard to swallow? All I'm saying is, rewards are meaningless without perspective. End game items that are acquired after a year of playing mean a hell of a lot more to me than some crap that everyone is bound to get if they play for two weeks, because really all your doing by shortening the character development is pushing cars through the same wash twice as fast. Sure, more cars will get washed, but its gonna be a crappy job.

That's a fault by equating longer level time = better rewards. It's not like the game just ends once you reach max level, there are things to do. Would you much rather have a game that is focused solely on leveling with no end game content? I don't see a point in a game like that. By the way, you're also assuming that once you reach max level, things just fall on your lap which clearly is not the case.

[Shmak]

MMORPGs derive the value of anything in the world from the time spent to obtain said item/skill/level/job/rank. There is no other meaningful system of value. Therefore, the highest level means more if it takes longer to achieve; its a better reward. DKP is currency system based around time spent; this "time currency" is used to buy the greatest rewards a guild can offer.

Decreasing the time commitment is, if you wish to think in terms of economics, the equivalent of inflation. Everything is simply worth less. Forgive me if i mixed ideas in my last post in terms of levels and items. They are essentially the same in that they require time to obtain.

[eVenom]

The longer you spend on it, the better you feel, correct? So you spend building you character for 7 months; I should feel happy because I spent such a massive amount of time reaching max level? It's somewhat true, I guess. I like the idea of making leveling not so easy, but according to you, if they make it 2 years long the reward will be greater, yes? In theory you are correct, but I don't see myself or 90% of people dedicating themselves to 2 years of trying to reach max level on a single character. Maybe I don't have the experience of playing a mmo for more than 2 years.

This example is a bit extreme, though, so don't take it too seriously. I can't put this delicately and I don't want to sound like a jerk either. I just can't work on character development for 1 individual character for too long.

Also, people will complain anyway, even with a short leveling time; that's human nature, to make things easier for us to grasp so we need less work and effort to achieve it. If they make it short, they'll say: "Heck, why not just make it a bit easier since it's this easy!?" As I keep saying, I'm all for 5 months, and possibly more since my first will take me a while (first characters always do).

[Blitz-]

Hmmmm, im guessing playstyle will be the main factor and how much game sense you have. You could play for an hour a day and reach 50 in a year or 12 hours a day and rach 50 in a month...

[Shmak]

Originally Posted by eVenom

The longer you spend on it, the better you feel, correct? So you spend building you character for 7 months; I should feel happy because I spent such a massive amount of time reaching max level? It's somewhat true, I guess. I like the idea of making leveling not so easy, but according to you, if they make it 2 years long the reward will be greater, yes? In theory you are correct, but I don't see myself or 90% of people dedicating themselves to 2 years of trying to reach max level on a single character. Maybe I don't have the experience of playing a mmo for more than 2 years.

The catch is, of course, how fun the game is. If leveling isn't a chore and enough content is available to make players happy, then how long it takes is irrelevant. However, if the starving horse kills itself forever striving for the carrot (*cough* L2 *cough*), then you have a problem.

The spin the Aion devs are putting on character development seems like a two stage process: 1 to 50 in levels, and low to high in the Abyss PvP ranking system (whatever that ends up looking like). PvP is endlessly more satisfying for me than PvE, so hopefully the PvP points system will provide a decent endgame.

[eVenom]

Originally Posted by Shmak

The catch is, of course, how fun the game is. If leveling isn't a chore and enough content is available to make players happy, then how long it takes is irrelevant. However, if the starving horse kills itself forever striving for the carrot (*cough* L2 *cough*), then you have a problem.

The spin the Aion devs are putting on character development seems like a two stage process: 1 to 50 in levels, and low to high in the Abyss PvP ranking system (whatever that ends up looking like). PvP is endlessly more satisfying for me than PvE, so hopefully the PvP points system will provide a decent endgame.

Yeah *ahem L2 SO MUCH FUN ahem*

With the abyss you can put in alot more character development since you basically playing 2 sides of your character in a way. Also, I remember that Elyos will have easier leveling at the end, while Asmodians will have it easier at the start. Where exactly do people spend their time leveling? At 25 you go to the abyss...then...? Do you stay their until 40? And how will they incorporate the easier leveling for Elyos at the end of the game if they intend to stick to Abyss leveling? I'm just wondering, since if they add acutal zones outside of the abyss later, then it won't be a problem.

[Nzo]

Imagine if every new character started at the level cap. How fun would that be? Short times to max lvl are stupid.

[Mark]

I don't think the Abyss is it after level 25. I just think people are ignoring PvE after 25. :l

[Grobyc]

Originally Posted by Nzo

Imagine if every new character started at the level cap. How fun would that be? Short times to max lvl are stupid.

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at. No game would ever do that and just because it's easy to level doesn't necessarily mean that it's just handed to you. Giving out blank statements without a reason why isn't exactly a way to have a discussion.

This gets me thinking that maybe I should start a poll and ask to see how long people would actually put up with getting to max level before it becomes too much. Do keep in mind that say spending 7 months or whatever arbitrary number is only for one toon. Imagine if you wanted to experience another class, then what? You would be ok with spending another year leveling a different toon doing the same quests and killing the same things over again? WoW was already painful enough doing the same quests over and over again, by the time I got my 5th 70, I didn't even want to touch another quest and by everyone's standard, WoW was actually easy to level in.