lvl 40

[Nzo]

As I said its about efficiency. Many times people who have no job/commitments can play all day but the fact is they know they can play all day so they dont use their time effeciently. People who are dedicated and who have other dedicated people to play with can then come home from work and catch up to the people who have been ****ing around all day. Its possible, you just have to ask yourself if youre up to the task. Dont stand around the banker in HQ wishing you could get in an exp party or complaining about how people who can play more than you are higher level, get out there and DO IT. These are the type of people I always look for when recruiting, people who are motivated and when there is nothing happening, they make something happen.

[buglepong]

Originally Posted by Shmak

It makes no difference how much time it takes to level.

I'm sure it does, although it seems technical constraints matter more than conscious player decision making. Because progress (levels) is a function of time (player input) burning through content (which is limited) there will be such a thing as an optimal progression based on a population's playing habits. The quicker the progression the faster content is experienced, leading to a shorter game lifespan (and commitment) in terms of player input, or time. It will determine whether the game is more suitable for a casual or hardcore playerbase, as by definition the former has less and the latter has more.

Originally Posted by Shmak

EVERY MMO IS BASED AROUND TIME COMMITMENT. The people who play the most will always have the greater achievement.

(This has been said a few times already it the thread, so I'm not picking on the poster specifically)
I agree completely with the statement. However, keep in mind that achievement does not necessarily equal satisfaction! Not to mention achievement is but one (arguably the largest) part of any MMO. Not everyone plays simply because they want to accomplish goals.

[Narmerguy]

No one wants to play a game for longer than 3 or 4 months if their commitment to the game will mean nothing to anyone who picks it up for 2 months. What I'm saying is, if someone can play for 2 months and essentially match everything I've done, what's the incentive to play for the extended months or years that I have at other games? Everyone wants some kind of compensation, some kind of advantage for their devotion to a game. 2 months simply seems a little light. I don't have limitless time either but comeon now...2 months?

[Metal4all]

Originally Posted by Aelo

2 months to get toward end game is kind of disheartening to us hard core players. If i can get full raid gear the best stigma and skills and max level in 3 months the game is waaaaaaaaaaaay to easy.

When i took a break from WoW i bought LoTRo to experience it and i think that it took me less than 2 months to get to lvl 48 at the time ( lvl cap was 50 and still is i think) and i leveled "slowly", compared to WoW, and was enjoying every minute of the game with all the beatifull grafics and lore that it has, but guess what?


I was 2 levels to reach cap and there was only 1 dungeon on raid end-game at the time and the next patch with new content was 2 months away (every 2 months the game has content update). So i took a break from Lotro to see if the game progresses more so that when i get back i have lots of new stuff to do, and guess what again?

This was almost a year ago and i froze my lotro account to get back and raid in WoW...


Morale of the story is that most of us have already played MMOs and we know what happens when we reach level cap and therei s few content in the game, so im confortable to say that i want devs to make us at least 3 months to get to lvl 40 and another month to get to 50 as long its enjoyable to level

About reputation grinding, as a wow player at the momment i can honest say that its the reputation keys to enter heroics that people got annoyed. It tooked a year for Blizz to tune down the reputation for the keys and with Sunwell they solved the question by you only have to complete a quest on normal mode to unlock the heroic mode of the dungeon, instead of the reputation grind to buy the key. BUT...

I agree with reputation grind when it comes to buy crafting recipes for example, toss some medium gear to help players leveling their chars and voilá, reputation grinding becomes less painfull.

[Fluxcored]

Originally Posted by Shmak

...The people who play the most will always have the greater achievement...

...If you cannot commit the time, then you cannot realistically set your sights on those end-game goals...

...Skill plays a hopelessly small factor. If it actually did come into play, even less people would have access to the end game content, and the game would be outright impossible for a portion of the audience of MMOs...

Originally Posted by Nzo

If you want balanced pvp play an fps. Inequality due to level and gear differences is one of the main components of a good pvp mmo and is a motivator for people to continue to play the game.

It really is that simple, no matter how contrary you wish it.

[Trentasy]

[quote=Shmak;155542] Gotta love these people complaining about a couple months of character development. Obviously they never touched EQ1 or L2. Those games took years to max out your first char. Its no wonder the same people turn around "Omgz leveling doesn't mean anything anymore!" Please save the griping. As hard as it is to understand, the longer the game takes, the more worthwhile the end seems.

and aint that the truth

[buglepong]

Originally Posted by Trentasy

the longer the game takes, the more worthwhile the end seems.

No it's not. By the same logic you would say someone who earns a lower salary has done something more worthwhile because it takes longer for him to pay off his mortgage. What matters is job satisfaction i.e. WHAT YOU DO for the rewards you get.

[Ariel]

This thread makes me cry...people want it to take 5+ months to get max lv.......thats a real turn off for me........im not hardcore and i dont think ill ever be hardcore.....and if its gona take 1yr + for non hardcore to get max lv.......thats just sad.......if its like that ill probably get bord of aion after 4 months.........it hurt me saying that

[Endrance]

The problem is that in most MMOs all you do to archieve something doesn't seem to be and in fact isn't worthwhile compared to playing a strategy game, an offline RPG or whatever. The experience is just more useful in the end and way less frustrating and time consuming. People play MMOs cause it has people. Imagine WoW, FFXI, L2 or whatever wouldn't have the people. Would you still play the game? I've tried once, emulating a MMO and it ended up being the worst game I've ever played (besides Ghostbusters on SNES).
You need to think about them as if it'd be a offline RPG, with the feature of playing together with many other players. The focus should be on gaming, on RPG, not MMO. Of course, this is also what makes it good in the end, but it can also make the game much worse. And in fact, this is what many companies do. An illusionay and people basis with a little game as extra. I want alot of game and a little people oriented features.
Anyone ever played Secret of Mana together with others via emulator? My best MORPG experience I ever had.

[squalleon]

hi i have only 1 question xD this game when it gonna be released im not sure if its a pc game and if can be downloaded ty

[Grobyc]

Originally Posted by Narmerguy

No one wants to play a game for longer than 3 or 4 months if their commitment to the game will mean nothing to anyone who picks it up for 2 months. What I'm saying is, if someone can play for 2 months and essentially match everything I've done, what's the incentive to play for the extended months or years that I have at other games? Everyone wants some kind of compensation, some kind of advantage for their devotion to a game. 2 months simply seems a little light. I don't have limitless time either but comeon now...2 months?

I don't know of ANY MMO out there that the game just ends when you reach max level. Also, I don't know of any MMO out there who grants the player that just reached max level the same thing someone who has reached max level a year ago (assuming that they were playing that whole year). That's all I have to say about your response and this game is no different. I can't imagine why anyone would want to make a game that way which is why there isn't one.

[Sangre]

Originally Posted by squalleon

hi i have only 1 question xD this game when it gonna be released im not sure if its a pc game and if can be downloaded ty

Around early 09 for EU/US.
Yes, it is a PC game.
And no it cannot.

[Shmak]

Originally Posted by Endrance

The problem is that in most MMOs all you do to archieve something doesn't seem to be and in fact isn't worthwhile compared to playing a strategy game, an offline RPG or whatever. The experience is just more useful in the end and way less frustrating and time consuming. People play MMOs cause it has people... ...The focus should be on gaming, on RPG, not MMO. Of course, this is also what makes it good in the end, but it can also make the game much worse. And in fact, this is what many companies do. An illusionay and people basis with a little game as extra. I want alot of game and a little people oriented features...

First off, I had no idea that MMOs weren't worthwhile! Guess I'll have to stop playing them. (On a side note, your opinion about MMOs in general casts a weird light on your glowing posts about FFXI... Perhaps you don't know how to lose an argument gracefully?)

You are right about the fact that people play MMOs to interact with other people, and that, in general, the gameplay can get lackluster. However, the fact is that the sociological aspects of the game weigh very heavily on the gameplay, and separating the two is virtually impossible. Lets make an example out of a game that we are probably all familiar with; FFVII.

As Cloud, the player is driven forward throughout most of the game, with limited options in terms of where to go and what to accomplish next. You cannot choose not to get on the train in the beginning. You cannot choose to invade Shinra HQ instead. This is ok for most players, as one of the main player motivations is finding out what happens next. Story driven play is impossible in an MMO, because everyone playing the same story is pointless and creating an individual story for each player is impossible. Therefore reaching catharsis and climax in a traditional storytelling manner is impossible.

In terms of gameplay, the devs of single player games have a huge advantage. When you fight the Midgar Zolom for the first time the devs know EXACTLY every item that you can acquire to that point. Encounters in MMOs are designed to be for a certain level, but there are often so many items available by the time the player approaches halfway to the cap, that balancing these encounters is way more difficult. In the end game, there are so many possible combinations that exploits are bound to happen. Not to mention the fact that you never have to fight another Cloud, who's combination of gear in relation to your combination is an exercise in chaos theory.

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Shmak

First off, I had no idea that MMOs weren't worthwhile! Guess I'll have to stop playing them.

Such a brilliant joke. Did you come up with that all by yourself?

On a side note, your opinion about MMOs in general casts a weird light on your glowing posts about FFXI... Perhaps you don't know how to lose an argument gracefully?

Give me one example of a glowing post from me about FFXI. I consider FFXI as the best MMORPG on the market. I never said that it's a good game as itself. I might even say that it's the worst Final Fantasy I've ever played, although when looking at your upcoming sentences, you'd probably come up with this "you cannot compare MMORPGs to normal offline RPGs" gibberish for strange reasons, so I rather don't.

You are right about the fact that people play MMOs to interact with other people, and that, in general, the gameplay can get lackluster.

First off, people have different intentions about playing MMOs. It's not like it is with RPGs, where you really just play cause of the game. Many people play MMOs, cause they want to run away from the real world, which is a task that is doomed to fail anyway.

However, the fact is that the sociological aspects of the game weigh very heavily on the gameplay, and separating the two is virtually impossible.

Seems like alot of stuff is impossible to you. That's fine, but you should think about your sentences before posting them next time, since no one ever said anything about separating gameplay and sociological aspects. In fact, it's way more complicated than just separating them (which is easily possible as a side note and has already been done in many kind of games - why wouldn't it be?). I don't see any rational reason why it shouldn't be possible to make another Secret of Mana with better graphics, more and newer features and a bit more social interacting.

Lets make an example out of a game that we are probably all familiar with; FFVII.
As Cloud, the player is driven forward throughout most of the game, with limited options in terms of where to go and what to accomplish next. You cannot choose not to get on the train in the beginning. You cannot choose to invade Shinra HQ instead. This is ok for most players, as one of the main player motivations is finding out what happens next. Story driven play is impossible in an MMO, because everyone playing the same story is pointless and creating an individual story for each player is impossible. Therefore reaching catharsis and climax in a traditional storytelling manner is impossible.

Um, but that's exactly what FFXI did. And it actually didn't feel pointless at all. By posting this weird example, you've just proved yourself wrong.
But let me ask you this question anyway: Why should it be pointless if people play a story together?

In terms of gameplay, the devs of single player games have a huge advantage. When you fight the Midgar Zolom for the first time the devs know EXACTLY every item that you can acquire to that point. Encounters in MMOs are designed to be for a certain level, but there are often so many items available by the time the player approaches halfway to the cap, that balancing these encounters is way more difficult. In the end game, there are so many possible combinations that exploits are bound to happen. Not to mention the fact that you never have to fight another Cloud, who's combination of gear in relation to your combination is an exercise in chaos theory.

So, there's a difficulty about balancing the more complex you make the game. Sorry to disappoint you, but I already knew that. Anyway, your post is just a poor example of someone trying to prove something that hasn't been questioned in the first place. I was saying that MMORPGs are completely designed for people to accomplish tasks inside of their community. There's no rational reason why MMORPGs should be less designed on that, but more on actual storytelling. Since that actually does make sense (it's possible to literally implement art through this, which makes everything way more interesting and if done good, even useful), while that other thing is just a poor compensation of trying to be successful in a world that doesn't suit humans. Pure waste. Not worthwhile at all.
It's not cause it's impossible, but because it costs money. More money than a cheap grinder with features does. Both work, but just one does in terms of huge profit.