Dual Wield mechanics

[yoritomo]

Originally Posted by TheJGoodz

Well, for starters. Polearms have a 50 crit base. Where as Greatswords have only 10.
The advantage of the polearm is having more crit, as a critical hit with a two handed weapon causes a stumble. Two handed weapons also have large AoE attacks.

Single handed weapons while faster, have no adverse effects with their criticals.

So normal dps without taking any effects, and skill damage into account is kind of pointless.

Your skills do the same damage whether you use a 1 hander or a 2 hander, so yes, this is a valid comparison.

I played a warrior in wow, i know the value of mace stun. If you can do enough damage to kill a target with dual wield and you have to rely on a stun to do it for 2h, guess which is better. Ive watched videos of glads at level 50 and im worried about it. Obviously i havent played at level 50 but this is definitely a red flag.

Originally Posted by Landar486

meh. if i wanted to dual wield i'd be an assassin.
it's nice that it's an option though, but 2h should be the main focus of this class. i'll not trade 1/2 damage on skills and no aoe for more auto attack.

I dont want to dual wield either, but i will if its the best thing to do. No offense but pvp in an mmo is about min maxing. i dont play to get killed because i got the shinier weapon.

[cagefreak]

Originally Posted by Artnas

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Yes you lose all AoE with dual wield but if you are going duel wield like me keep a pole on you for AoE!
Also i noticed you are from Silicon Valley i am as well i live in San Jose :D

Awesome!! I'm in Milpitas.

Was going to invite you to our Legion but I noticed you're runing Elo.

As for running dual wield with a side of polearm... sounds like a great idea. I went ahead and key mapped the action to change weaps so I can do it in the middle of battling mobs.

Here's my thing though. Does the dual wield beat the polearm in terms of dmg? I mean I know it's faster at dealing but is it as strong within the same amount of time given...

[Khimera]

You seem to be failing to see the whole picture. You cant just just compare dmg ranges and attack speed, as there is many more inherant stats on weapons then most mmos. With things like diminishing returns on stats such as crit rate and the like you can achieve equal crit rates with each weapon. Attack speeds can be brought up to similar speeds as only the highest attack speed weapon stat takes effect.

While its pretty universally considered that dual weild is slightly higher damage out put and primarily used for pve. Where as the use of 2handers grants the ablities of aoe (which 1 handers do not, and aoe will always = higher dps than single target). Where 2 handers excell is the ability to knock down and esentially knock down lock players which makes them far superior for pvp.

So if you wanna min max uses dual wield in pve and 2 handers in pvp.

[Coramac]

Originally Posted by yoritomo

Your skills do the same damage whether you use a 1 hander or a 2 hander, so yes, this is a valid comparison.

This is false- skill damage is modified by about 90% weapon damage from what I can tell.

[cagefreak]

Originally Posted by Khimera

You seem to be failing to see the whole picture. You cant just just compare dmg ranges and attack speed, as there is many more inherant stats on weapons then most mmos. With things like diminishing returns on stats such as crit rate and the like you can achieve equal crit rates with each weapon. Attack speeds can be brought up to similar speeds as only the highest attack speed weapon stat takes effect.

While its pretty universally considered that dual weild is slightly higher damage out put and primarily used for pve. Where as the use of 2handers grants the ablities of aoe (which 1 handers do not, and aoe will always = higher dps than single target). Where 2 handers excell is the ability to knock down and esentially knock down lock players which makes them far superior for pvp.

So if you wanna min max uses dual wield in pve and 2 handers in pvp.

You're right, now that I'm looking at it there are too many other factors to make it so cut and dry. I'm originally a big fan of the polearm since it hits so hard when it crits but I was just curious about the whole dual wield idea and was wondering if it was for me. Thanks for all the info folks!!

[yoritomo]

Originally Posted by Khimera

You seem to be failing to see the whole picture. You cant just just compare dmg ranges and attack speed, as there is many more inherant stats on weapons then most mmos. With things like diminishing returns on stats such as crit rate and the like you can achieve equal crit rates with each weapon. Attack speeds can be brought up to similar speeds as only the highest attack speed weapon stat takes effect.

While its pretty universally considered that dual weild is slightly higher damage out put and primarily used for pve. Where as the use of 2handers grants the ablities of aoe (which 1 handers do not, and aoe will always = higher dps than single target). Where 2 handers excell is the ability to knock down and esentially knock down lock players which makes them far superior for pvp.

So if you wanna min max uses dual wield in pve and 2 handers in pvp.

No apparently you dont understand, there are more stats than the ones theyve said will only be taken from the main hand, and 5 extra slots per weapon. If you only draw crit rating and attack speed from the main hand youd get double the accuracy, magic resist, hp, whatever is on the item, and those 1.5 heroics have like 8 stats plus 5 gem slots. The one handers have the same stats as the 2 handers so you could massively increase your stats and apparently your damage. You get a much higher crit modifier on those 1 handers meaning that your skills will do way more damage when they crit and you get almost double the dps from your auto attacks.

[karate]

and even good use of arms that like to play there

[Rizzo]

that was an good read!

[Coramac]

Originally Posted by yoritomo

No apparently you dont understand, there are more stats than the ones theyve said will only be taken from the main hand, and 5 extra slots per weapon. If you only draw crit rating and attack speed from the main hand youd get double the accuracy, magic resist, hp, whatever is on the item, and those 1.5 heroics have like 8 stats plus 5 gem slots. The one handers have the same stats as the 2 handers so you could massively increase your stats and apparently your damage. You get a much higher crit modifier on those 1 handers meaning that your skills will do way more damage when they crit and you get almost double the dps from your auto attacks.

The problem with this is that many skills lower your DPS while DWing currently.

[yoritomo]

Originally Posted by Coramac

The problem with this is that many skills lower your DPS while DWing currently.

That sounds to me like a problem with the skills, not with the dual wielding. Thats what im saying here, im not saying dual wielding is awesome. Im saying theres something fishy about the formula they are using and we are looking to come out on the worse end of it.

[Landar486]

what's fishy about it? skills are based off of weapon damage. 1h'er has lower weapon damage(almost50% less). skills therefore do almost 50% less damage, plus you're down an attack+attack chain, losing more dps.

[Coramac]

Originally Posted by yoritomo

That sounds to me like a problem with the skills, not with the dual wielding. Thats what im saying here, im not saying dual wielding is awesome. Im saying theres something fishy about the formula they are using and we are looking to come out on the worse end of it.

For two handers you get something odd. Some animations are very fast. This to some degree negates the weapon speed issue. You simply want the highest damage weapon for specials in the absence of auto attacks. However, skill spamming is not optimum so weapon speed is not irrelevant, but it's importance is still lessened.

There is another factor that is very important you left unconsidered. Daggers are 1 strike weapons, Swords are 2 strike weapons. Greatswords are 3 strike weapons, Polearms are 4 strike. I have a feeling that after the extra strikes are figured in, the weapons comparisons that you had issues with will be equal.

[Hanso]

Originally Posted by Coramac

For two handers you get something odd. Some animations are very fast. This to some degree negates the weapon speed issue. You simply want the highest damage weapon for specials in the absence of auto attacks. However, skill spamming is not optimum so weapon speed is not irrelevant, but it's importance is still lessened.

There is another factor that is very important you left unconsidered. Daggers are 1 strike weapons, Swords are 2 strike weapons. Greatswords are 3 strike weapons, Polearms are 4 strike. I have a feeling that after the extra strikes are figured in, the weapons comparisons that you had issues with will be equal.

i don't know if you meant that, but faster attack speed = faster skill animation, so there's a reason to have it even if you do 100% skillspam.

[Xenogrant]

Originally Posted by Hanso

i don't know if you meant that, but faster attack speed = faster skill animation, so there's a reason to have it even if you do 100% skillspam.

Weapon attack speed does not affect animation speed, only items with %speed do.

[Hanso]

Originally Posted by Xenogrant

Weapon attack speed does not affect animation speed, only items with %speed do.

when i equip +attspd% wep/gloves or use +attspd% scroll the stat "attack speed" goes down, i guess we mean the same thing?