Dual Wield mechanics

[Sinder]

=( I just got confuseded.

[Xenogrant]

Originally Posted by TheRadicalPunk

You misunderstand. In no way do I want Glads to out dps Sins. Sins by far should be the best single target melee dps. They should hit hard.

But with that said a 2-hander should crit harder then a one-hander. It does more damage, it's slower, and you sacrifice 3-5 slots of manastones since you aren't dual-wielding.

I just dont' see how that can be implemented though. The fact that it's slower is offset by skillspam that ignores weapon attack speed. And if they make 2handers crit harder than DW then there'd be no reason to equip stigma for dw and maintain 2 or 3 weapons instead of 1. I mean if we want to make something realistic lets just make 2hander cleave people in half, but miss 9 times out of 10. In all seriousness though, I wouldn't expect any drastic changes to the mechanics after the game's been out that long, I don't see NC scrapping something and rebulding their combat system from ground up. Maybe they could make 2hander have negative crit values but higher crit multiplier, so you'll crit less often but harder, I just can't think of any practical solutions to appease the realism crowd, because i hear this argument over and over again from different people each time.

[TheRadicalPunk]

Originally Posted by Xenogrant

I just dont' see how that can be implemented though. The fact that it's slower is offset by skillspam that ignores weapon attack speed. And if they make 2handers crit harder than DW then there'd be no reason to equip stigma for dw and maintain 2 or 3 weapons instead of 1. I mean if we want to make something realistic lets just make 2hander cleave people in half, but miss 9 times out of 10. In all seriousness though, I wouldn't expect any drastic changes to the mechanics after the game's been out that long, I don't see NC scrapping something and rebulding their combat system from ground up. Maybe they could make 2hander have negative crit values but higher crit multiplier, so you'll crit less often but harder, I just can't think of any practical solutions to appease the realism crowd, because i hear this argument over and over again from different people each time.

Realistic as in math not realistic as in an axe will cleave a man in two with one stroke.

If a one hander has 500 dmg but crits for 1500 and a 2-hander has 1000 dmg but only crits for 1500 something is very wrong.

[Malevolent]

Originally Posted by Xenogrant

In 1.0 the dw is so broke. As it only uses main hand attack speed, but for damage calculations it takes weapon 1 and adds weapon 2 to it. So if weapoin 1 hits for 50 with 1 second attack speed, and weapon 2 hits for 100 with 2 seconds, you'll do 150 a hit with attack speed of 1 second. This makes dagger in main hand and hard hitting weapon in offhand so lethal. Also 1 handers crit multiplier is 2.5, while 2handers is 1.5. So not only are you hitting faster than you should but also landing high crits. In 1.5 on release they're fixing it to use the average of 2 weapon's speeds, so it'll do 150 damage every 1.5 seconds which would make it more balanced for auto attacks at least, and speculation has it that multipliers are beign toned down on 1handers and boosted on 2hander slightly.

Abilties only use main hand weapon for calculations I believe, GCD doesn't really apply to anything but maybe auto attacks, since skill usage is determined by animation speed, and the only thing that affects animation speed is %attack speed stat. However 30+ auto attacks start outDPSing skill spam, due to dual wield being OP right now.

Original post has quite a bit with misinformation in it. Also if you wanna see some stats, check out the charts at the bottom in case you haven't seen em.
Gladiator: Visual Guide to DPS - Unmoderated Info

Thanks for the answer.

[Xenogrant]

Originally Posted by TheRadicalPunk

Realistic as in math not realistic as in an axe will cleave a man in two with one stroke.

If a one hander has 500 dmg but crits for 1500 and a 2-hander has 1000 dmg but only crits for 1500 something is very wrong.

Nothing is wrong, swords and polearms dont' crit in real life. If a game developers want to make daggers crit for more than polearms so be it. Like I said you can't really go all Ultimate Warrior on a video game. Anyway there's a million other threads witht his same discussion, which is offtopic here.

[Hanso]

TheRadicalPunk, in terms of speed dual wield with X attspd% = polearm with X attspd% (and also dual wield w/o attspd% = polearm w/o attspd%) if you skill spam. so polearm is not slower unless you count in auto atts.

[Obscure_User]

I'm not sure if I've noticed a sizable difference in dual-wielding to greatsword/polearm. They both have about the same amount of dps until you start getting into the critical hits. With dual-wielding I can make a HP bar melt if I get a consistent chain of critical hits, which happens with a fairly reliable frequency with only a 110 crit-rate at lvl 22. The auto atks are no big deal until you factor in that every now and then you'll kick out critical hits that stack up to massive damage with 2 and 3 strike weapons, as opposed to the much slower 2 handers. Simply a higher volume of hits gives you a greater probability to land a critical hit and thus makes dual-wielding better in my opinion, only because of that. If they patched 2 handers to have a higher default crit-rate they'd even the playing field, except in the case of the AoE attack which is only usable with a 2 handed weapon. Unless I see a patch like that my Azmo glad is a dual-wielder all the way.

[Xenogrant]

Originally Posted by Obscure_User

I'm not sure if I've noticed a sizable difference in dual-wielding to greatsword/polearm. They both have about the same amount of dps until you start getting into the critical hits. With dual-wielding I can make a HP bar melt if I get a consistent chain of critical hits, which happens with a fairly reliable frequency with only a 110 crit-rate at lvl 22. The auto atks are no big deal until you factor in that every now and then you'll kick out critical hits that stack up to massive damage with 2 and 3 strike weapons, as opposed to the much slower 2 handers. Simply a higher volume of hits gives you a greater probability to land a critical hit and thus makes dual-wielding better in my opinion, only because of that. If they patched 2 handers to have a higher default crit-rate they'd even the playing field, except in the case of the AoE attack which is only usable with a 2 handed weapon. Unless I see a patch like that my Azmo glad is a dual-wielder all the way.

You're right there's next to no difference until you either twink your char or get high level enough to get into 300-400 crit range, which is when dual wield starts outDPSing 2handers by a wide and noticable margin because of their higher crit values.