Request for Comments - Binding items: The Pros & Cons

[Leo]

Here's another request for comments from the Dev's in Korea.

Many of today's MMORPGs allow players to bind valuable or hard-to-find items to their character. Whilst this can increase the longevity of the game, it can also negatively affect the ability of other players to acquire such items.

Normally a player would need to join a large raid party and wait until their turn to loot the item in question. Certain bindable items have more powerful statistics and abilities than normal buyable items, so for that reason alone a character carrying one becomes more valuable and gains status amongst other players.

Like all items which can't be sold, items bound to a character can become an inconvenience. For example, if you had a friend who had just starting playing the game, you wouldn't be able to give them good items if they were bound to you. This could turn out to be pretty frustrating. Besides that, many items found in MMORPGs are consumables which can be sold or traded for another at any time. If you were able to sell powerful items on the open market in a game you'd be able to reap huge benefits, however allowing bound items would make this impossible.

However it is important to note that bindable items are rare for a reason. They require a lot of hard work to obtain so they become a badge of pride for some. This is very important to many MMORPG players.

What do you think about this? Is item binding a good or bad thing for a game? Or do you have an idea that is even better than binding items to a character? If so we want to hear about it.

[Kether]

I think that these kind of high-level, hard work rewards should only be bindable....so that lazy bums can't get them on ebay or as a gift from a powerful friend. One thing I don't like though, is that usually you have to take turns to get the item, thus asking you to repeat the same mission/quest/raid over and over again until you get the piece too...which is waaaay boring in my opinion

[Jarevin]

I think a better way to do it is rather than have a rare mob or raid mob drop an item that is bindable, drop an item that is used to turn in for a quest or used as a component to craft the bindable item. Perhaps the item drops in threes so that three members can get the item from a raid instead of one.

Example:

A powerful dragon's scales are required to make any of the following items:

A suit of armor
A shield
A helmet

When the dragon is killed a number of scales drop and the scales are taken to (or used by) a crafter (whether NPC or PC) to then forge the bindable item.

Its sort of a compromise between both.

It may even be a scenario where the dragon was guarding a powerful component artifact as opposed to a piece of its body. An orb that when attacted to correctly can make a staff, or ground up its powder can be used to hone the edge of a blade etc.

Just my thoughts.

It allows bindable items to be created without forcing only one person in the raid to benefit and also without requiring you to be lucky enough to have the specific item drop. By making it a quest/recipe component a raid can walk away with the items they want without mindlessly farming it over and over again sometimes gaining nothing for their efforts.

[Aeterna]

I would say that bindable items is a good thing, as it rewards the player who worked for it.
However I don't think that there is any need for bindable items when it comes down to leveling, because you won't be able to use it forever anyways.
Also I'd like to see a way to use a bound item that is no longer of any use to you one way or the other, perhaps similar to WoW's Disenchanting as in a way to get some sort of resource out of the item.

I do think that binding an item is a good idea, when it's considered to be rare, there will ofcourse be plenty of "common/uncommon" class items which I personally don't think are worthy of being bindable. Therefore I think after a certain level of the item it should be bound to the player.

[osric]

that is a fine idea, jarevin.

a similar solution is for "tokens" to drop from these high level bosses and those can be traded in for certain bound class items... so a warrior, a ranger, and a mage could all get these tokens, but each can then get a class specific item when they trade it in. (i think i heard that WoW started doing this, but i haven't played recently so i don't know for sure) i think jarevin's idea has more immersion, but it would depend on a crafter... and unless that's an NPC then it might deter some people, or make crafters who can make these items from the drops charge outrageous prices for it.

another solution is to create a really robust crafting system. if crafted items (which could be sold or given away) are just as powerful, or nearly as powerful as the big boss drops, then people wouldn't need to raid over and over again. yeah it would be cool to have that boss drop, and that could be a badge of honor, but for someone who doesn't have time to go raiding all the time, they could work to create their own item or buy an item that is just as powerful as the raid drop.

the only problem with non-bound items, is that people WILL buy money off ebay or wherever to get powerful items that aren't bound. but i guess they'd do it to buy "bind on equip" items as well... now one solution to that is to make all of the more powerful items quest rewards. this, however, will limit the diversity of items and everyone will end up looking the same.

i guess in the end i'd say, make the crafting system powerful enough to rival boss drops (those items should be tough to make, of course), bind the rare boss items, and bind the high lvl crafted items on equip. this binding of crafted items will keep the market from getting flooded and keep crafters in business as well.

sorry for the long post

[Kether]

Originally Posted by Jarevin

I think a better way to do it is rather than have a rare mob or raid mob drop an item that is bindable, drop an item that is used to turn in for a quest or used as a component to craft the bindable item. Perhaps the item drops in threes so that three members can get the item from a raid instead of one.

Example:

A powerful dragon's scales are required to make any of the following items:

A suit of armor
A shield
A helmet

When the dragon is killed a number of scales drop and the scales are taken to (or used by) a crafter (whether NPC or PC) to then forge the bindable item.

Its sort of a compromise between both.

It may even be a scenario where the dragon was guarding a powerful component artifact as opposed to a piece of its body. An orb that when attacted to correctly can make a staff, or ground up its powder can be used to hone the edge of a blade etc.

Just my thoughts.

It allows bindable items to be created without forcing only one person in the raid to benefit and also without requiring you to be lucky enough to have the specific item drop. By making it a quest/recipe component a raid can walk away with the items they want without mindlessly farming it over and over again sometimes gaining nothing for their efforts.

I like your idea

[Pancak3s]

Leo,

This is what the problem with Lineage2 was....

Items that were rare and hard to obtain were almost ALWAYS controlled by farmers who had total control of the economy. Rare items that came from raid bosses were camped and farmed 24/7 ... which is how farmers controlled this... Also, by obtaining these rare items farmers were able to set the price to what they wanted, earn a sale, then sell the in game currency on ebay/gold selling web sites.

Its a lose/lose situation in lineage2.


Rare items are a MUST to be BIND ON PICKUP. WoW is an excellent example on how well this works. Hard work is shown, instead of baught.

[Diablo]

Like Jarevin, i would much rather see these uber items not bound but be craftable from the component these rare mobs drop.

Economy=community which leads to content and game longevity all by itself.

[Esper]

If top items would not be bindable Aion die under ebay. Look at Lineage - game for bots and ebayers.

[Jarevin]

To further clarify some things about my idea.

In the situation where the components are dropped I believe it would be best to use an NPC to turn the items in to have them crafted into your item, I think it would be best to have these components bind to you also or else you have the same issue as having the items themselves not bound (ebayers etc).

JF the game has a robust crafting economy then using players to craft with these items becomes an option and then you would have to consider the pros and cons having the items bound to the person that receives them.

I also think it is wise when using a system of boss/raid mobs that the mobs in question be found inside instances (if this is part of Aion) as it allows multiple guilds/clans to take part in content without any single force dominating it. Timers to reset these instances are obviously a good idea as well so they cannot be farmed over and over again repeatedly.

In addition to these timed instance encounters there could be world boss mobs also, but by spreading component loots out across multiple targets it allows more people access.

Perhaps there will also be rare components that drop from single player mobs so that everyone can take part in a quest to craft a legendary armor or weapon.

Finally, it would be wonderful if the items created that would otherwise be bindable allow a bit of flavor for the character.

The Greatsword of Harmony and The Spear of Shattered Souls may be balanced in statistics but it would allow a bit further customization for the characters involved.

So all of that said (and forgive me for going on for so long) let me give you a sample quest chain.

1) The player locates the quest giver. A person or tome or other source.
2) The player seeks out the first quest chain link, the recipe (or basically the list of what he needs)
3) The player gathers a series of items that can be attained alone and are relativly common (like metal ores or animal skins etc)
4) The player then seeks out the first (or only) rare component with the help of his allies.
5) The player carries the components to another NPC (or player) to forge the item in question.

So to put it into identifiable terms:

A player questing in an old forgotten tomb that has been despoiled by undead finds a book that references a legendary sword wielded by the ancient guardian of the tomb that he stands within.

Intrigued by the legend of the sword the book references as "Twilight's Edge" the player seeks out a librarian in a major city nearby. He questions the librarian who tells him the story of the sword's history, that it was a blade forged long ago from obsidian and bound with ancient magical rites to take on the properties of shadow. The librarian directs the player to another book that explains the legend of its creation that the librarian has on hand.

While the sword itself my have gone missing from history the player decides that what once was could be again, and decides to follow in the forgers footsteps.

The player then begins his epic quest to locate the materials needed.

He goes through the process of gathering a number of mundane materials and then finds himself at a most daunting task. To empower the blade he must find a way to harness the power of shadow itself, must find something that will allow him to trap the essence of darkness.

This seems impossible until he hears rumors of a powerful wizard who has been rumored to have crafted a crystal that can be used to harness the power of shadow or the power of light depending on the whim of the wielder.

The player decides that he will do whatever it takes to get this crystal for himself. What the player may or may not know is that someone else seeks the very same crystal, however that person was led there by a legend that speaks of a shield that would serve as a light to guide those who it protects.

Once either player receives the crystal they seek out a wizard (or other NPC/PC appropriate to the item) powerful enough to harness the magic and complete the creation of their item.

That's just a rough basic idea of what I mean. I'm at work so forgive me if I lost anyone during the post.

[chelanfarsight]

BOP items are not just about hard work they are also about two other questions in creating game balance. so my argument is mainly about the gear that is going to be BOP or not.

first, how intense or casual do you intend to let your audience be with your game? if the game is not intended for 2-3 hour a day or less gamers then BOP makes sense. however, if you want to appeal to a larger audience then that leads us to the second, and for me more important, question.

that is, how gear dependent will characters be in this game? if gear is a major part of how well an individual character can perform, as opposed to relying more on group help, strategy, and race/class abilities then BOP makes sense. however, if gear is to be subordinate to strategy, abilities, and groups then BOP is once again problematic.

will BOP items be deal breakers in gameplay in aion? if not then whether they are BOP or not really isnt an issue. if they are then a question of balance has to be raised. who is playing? who do you want to attract to play? can you provide a challenge for differing types of players if all it takes is one hardcore player to grind out 20 hours in a day to achieve something that will pretty much determine encounters?

[knite16]

The idea of binding items has always had me torn. If items are bound for no reason but to prevent you from trading, I don't think its very realistic or beneficial. You have to think of the word itself. I am BINDING this sword to myself. What does that mean? To me, that means this sword is becoming a part of you. If not physically, in a spiritual way.

So my thoughts are as follows. There should be no items the require you to be bound to them. Or very few instances, perhaps. However, if you choose to bind an item to your being there should be a benefit for doing so. Perhaps there are some specials that can only be performed with a soulbound weapon equipped, or since the blade is one with you, it knows your thoughts and you receive increased accuracy and speed with it. Or heck, maybe the blade even levels up along with you!

But you also have to look at the market. Not everyone likes to keep the same equipment forever or through the leveling process, you rneeds can change, so even soulbound items should have a way to become disenchanted. You have to be careful with this though, because if its too easy, everyone will be binding everything for the benefits. Maybe each weapon has an unbind penalty based on its rarity with the most rare items even causing temporary or perminent level or stat loss as sort of a "separation trauma". You're losing a part of yourself by unbinding this item and it will take you a while to recover.

You just have to think about what this would really mean in a world like Aion's. Your soul is everything and anything you add to it is going to gain its benefits, yet if a piece of your soul is taken away, you're going to take a hit physically for a while.

What do you think?

[lyankyj]

"f you had a friend who had just starting playing the game, you wouldn't be able to give them good items if they were bound to you."

Thats the reason i think its a good idea...i dont like when high lvl players give stuffs to their m8 (or to me).. its just wrong, it ruins the feelings of success, coz u dont need to fight for the good stuff, just ask a friend to give them to you..for me these giveaways are a type of cheating (I know, I know....)

+ if everyone can access to the high lvl stuffs, the whole merch. system could fail, just like in GW...

so yes, i vote for binding items (or a better idea if theres any - I like Jarevin's idea!)

[srinknorei]

wish there was an 'undecided fence sitter' option on that poll

i understand the need for BOP/BOE items, and I have become used to the idea now, but when i first started playing WOW and when SWG introduced 'bio-linking' i wasn't too thrilled.

problem is, 've outgrown my Molten Core drops and i haven't the heart to sell them (dropped DE'ing a while ago) and they take up my bank space. haha.

i also liked the idea of saving what items you acquired because then you could give them to a trusted friend or guild mate to use when you out-grew the item.

then my idea of having looting support crafting isn't at all supported by BOP/BOE.

so, i would say, there should then be quite a range of BOE/BOP and non-BOE/BOP items. I would say more non-BOE/BOP, but still allow for some of the nice drops from bosses to be BOE. I'm not ready to agree to bind on pickup yet

basically what osric said. hah!