Chanter vs Cleric Healing

[Eriol]

I'm somewhat concerned. I see it as a bad thing if there's only one viable healing class in the entire game for single-group content. That seems to put up a rather large barrier for grouping content. Others here obviously don't agree, but I lived through the EQ1 time where you NEEDED a cleric and an enchanter and a warrior or you did NOT have a viable group, because NO other classes (or multiple of classes) were really viable for doing the content (they fixed it later in EQ1 so that druids and shamans became passable healers, though clerics remained the champs). It seems like a mistake to do that in any game.

[Aggelos]

Well... there's only one viable tanking class, only one nuker class, only one buffing class... I don't get your point.

You can of course level up solo or with a party without a cleric, but if you want to go to kill bosses or hard mob or pvp, you need one, it's logical.

[Rio]

Originally Posted by Aggelos

You're gonna fail there. It's impossible for two chanters to keep up 2 mantras, which consume MP over time, the targeted buffs and healing. MP will be gone in a minute. I guess your party will work with low lvl mobs to kill faster, when you actually don't need to heal at all if the party is well buffed, but forget about bosses, elites, PvP, or Abyss in general.

I think you may be thinking aura's and buffs are the same thing, auras only cost mp for the initial cast, which has a very very low mp cost. Buffs can be directed to any single ally. Also, Chanters have plenty of mp refresh skills (Restoration of the Mind, Aura of Wisdom, Recharge) compared to the Cleric only having one mp refresh skill (Restoration of the Mind) The Chanter seems like a FFXI BRD & RDM hybrid to me. Imo, it might be the Cleric who would run out of MP before a Chanter would. Also, buffs last quite a long time, most of the main buffs that will be used in pt's will last anywhere from 5-45 minutes so I think it's a bit unrealistic to think that a pt with 2 chanters would run out of MP so quickly due to casting buffs, using auras (basically no mp) and healing. I'm not saying that a Chanter could compeltely replace a Cleric but I think when it comes to smaller groups, dual Chanters might be preferable. Granted, I haven't played the game, so I think to say that one WILL be better than the other is pointless since no one knows yet. Also, in reference to OP, it seems there are two viable tank classes according to the devs in the MMO Report Aion special.

[Hexxeity]

Originally Posted by Aggelos

Well... there's only one viable tanking class, only one nuker class, only one buffing class... I don't get your point.

That cannot possibly be true. Otherwise either 1) Some classes aren't good at anything, or 2) Every party will have to have 8 members, one of each class.

Then again, I feel you've oversimplified. Healing is not the thing that's needed -- it's damage mitigation, which can be accomplished by either healing OR by preventing the damage in the first place. Likewise, "nuking" isn't what a party needs; it's damage per second, which can be accomplish by magic, ranged physical attacks (bows), or high-DPS melee.

It's a matter of working with what you've got, not deciding what you HAVE to have ahead of time. People who are adventuring will always earn more XP than people who sit around waiting for the perfect party to materialize.

[Aggelos]

Originally Posted by Rio

I think you may be thinking aura's and buffs are the same thing, auras only cost mp for the initial cast, which has a very very low mp cost. Buffs can be directed to any single ally. Also, Chanters have plenty of mp refresh skills (Restoration of the Mind, Aura of Wisdom, Recharge) compared to the Cleric only having one mp refresh skill (Restoration of the Mind).

Where did you get that? If I remember well Mantras ("Auras") are toggles. And that's why they have so many MP recovery skills (one of them an Aura, lol). In fact, the CBT3 patch note says

Only two mantras can be maintained at a time

, and by maintained it means "toggle on". The other buffs are single target and they last 25 minutes since CBT3 (the "Blessings").
And maybe recharge can't be cast on oneself (as L2 recharge).

Originally Posted by Hexxeity

That cannot possibly be true. Otherwise either 1) Some classes aren't good at anything, or 2) Every party will have to have 8 members, one of each class.

Then again, I feel you've oversimplified. Healing is not the thing that's needed -- it's damage mitigation, which can be accomplished by either healing OR by preventing the damage in the first place. Likewise, "nuking" isn't what a party needs; it's damage per second, which can be accomplish by magic, ranged physical attacks (bows), or high-DPS melee.

It's a matter of working with what you've got, not deciding what you HAVE to have ahead of time. People who are adventuring will always earn more XP than people who sit around waiting for the perfect party to materialize.

I never said you MUST have one in every party, I said, if you need a tank, you MUST invite a Templar, if you don't need it that much, a Gladiator can off-tank. So, if you NEED heals, you MUST invite a Cleric, if heals aren't needed that much, you can relax and let the Chanter heal you or expect buffs to protect you.

So, you have to know where to level according to the people you have in the party, if you don't have Cleric, don't expect the Chanter or 2 to fulfill the same role, cause most probably they'll fail, so, if you have 2 chanters and no Cleric, go to level in a place where you don't get much damage, or if you have a tank, you can go to place a little more difficult. But don't expect 2 Chanters to do the same as 1 Cleric, it all depends on the context, so, if you plan to go to the Abyss, a raid or pvp, don't expect to survive if only 2 chanters are healing, you NEED a Cleric.

For instance, I never ever needed a Healer in a party to level in L2, Vampiric Rage (a buff that returned HP on each hit) did all the job. But if an enemy party suddenly attack, and they had a Bishop and you only a Prophet, you're dead in a second.

[Karnage]

You're gonna fail there. It's impossible for two chanters to keep up 2 mantras, which consume MP over time, the targeted buffs and healing. MP will be gone in a minute. I guess your party will work with low lvl mobs to kill faster, when you actually don't need to heal at all if the party is well buffed, but forget about bosses, elites, PvP, or Abyss in general.

Not true Aggelos. Chanters have a buff that gives MP regen every time they hit the enemy with a melee attack, proving not only that they are supposed to be a front line class damage dealing class and that it would be possible to pull off the two chanters healing thing as long as there is an abundance of enemies.

[Aggelos]

I think the MP regen through hits will be hardly enough to keep two mantras and all blessings up, and some off heals now and then.

I repeat, if you expect Chanters to heal you, keep 2 mantras, all blessings and in top of that hitting... then you have to pick an easy situation, a small party, low level mobs or hard mobs but pulling one at a time.

Why are you trying to replace Clerics at all, it's stupid. Just invite one to the party.

[Shatterproof]

Well, I'm going to through this out and hopefully not have to repeat it: Aion is in its developmental stages. I get making theories but, no one KNOWS anything. Basing Aion mechanics on other games is flawed logic. I know class basics are usually the same but, one of Aion's main selling points is that it addresses a lot of the complaints players have about the drag and difficulty of a boring grind. It also claims to improve soloability while specializing in team structures. Essentially, by the time the game is DONE, all classes should be soloable dependent on player skill and interchangeable to a degree in party structures.

Do I think a chanter will out heal a cleric? Hell no. Do I think buffs will add damage mitigation? Yes. Will that decrease the amount of healing needed? Obviously. It will also INCREASE DPS OUTPUT. Will a chanter be able to not die instantly like a squishy caster? Yes. Will they have more DPS? Yes. Clerics have weaker buffs. Chanters have weaker heals. The question is whether or not you prefer to stay in the back and cast, avoiding all aspects of conflict, or do you join the fray to some extent?

In small groups, with the right gear, skill, level, and combination, either should do. All the super heals or mega buffs in the world won't help in a group of scrubs. In large raids I'd hope to see both. One in the back as the primary healer. The other in the midst to handle secondary heals, contribute as needed, and protect the cleric while the party is buffed. Synergy. Even in a group of 5, it leaves you a spot for a tank and 2 for whatever DPS classes match your groups play style. Not saying one of each works for everyone but, it'd do.

Two of one class vs one of a similar class is a pointless discussion. Thats like saying two gladiators can't tank as well as one templar. Maybe, but, they are similar and have a much larger DPS output. Two templars can't DPS like a gladiator but, they have more survivability. You just adjust your group play accordingly. Use strategy. The effectiveness varies based on the situations. Its WAY too early to have any 'set facts' about any of it. Only logical assumptions with the understanding that they could be wrong at launch.

[Aux]

I just want to know which of the healing classes is better for purposes of griefing. I like being a good healer, but sometimes I get bored.

[Aura]

As far as I've seen, although there isn't any real information on which is better, a cleric will never be replaced as the top healer. In other games I've played, there were other alternatives to clerics when they were in short supply, but nothing was better for the survival of hardcore groups than a good cleric. With all of the dedication that has been put into this game, and the extreme focus on the balance of the in-game environment, I doubt that they'd create a class that was equal to a cleric, as that would throw off the balance and make the cleric obsolete.

Each class is in game to provide something unique and special to that class, not just special to that school. I assume a chanter could easily care for one or maybe two other players in normal combat, but extreme combat in more dangerous areas should easily be a call for a cleric.

[Becto]

I'm definately considering creating a chanter or a priest for Aion as my main character... so I've done a bit of research into both but as this topic says which one is better?


NOTE: THIS LONG WINDED "BLAAAAA" IS JUST AN OPINION, NOT A FACT. I DO NOT CLAIM TO KNOW SH*T ALL BUT THIS IS THE PATTERN I HAVE NOTICED.

I think in a normal situation such as mass pvp both have their pro's and con's.
Pro's for chanter clearly being their ability to pump up the entire parties defence attack and everything else you could think of, however their healing abilities are lacking, and even in cbt3 their heal was really of minimal assistance and as far as has been released chanters do not get any higher level healing abilities. So their role in a party would be buffing and keeping their mantra (the whole mantra idea sounds very cool to me... reminds me of some all mighty godly spell that will protect everyone in it.. hah Lawl) active. Also they will be dealing dps, so in a party they wouldn't just be sitting there waiting for the timer's to run out; So in a sense think of them as templars that can boost stats of the entire party.

Whereas the priest follows the basics of the "white mage" or "healer" their abilities are mainly comprised of keeping the hitpoints of their party and themselves at maximum, with gradual healing abilities and direct deposit healing abilities. They also have buffs of their own but are a farcry from their brother, chanter's, super powered buff's (and lets not forget mantra on top of all that.. wholy sheeee!)

In MY opinion the priest and chanter are completely parralel classes that differentiated and changed themselves completely.

Haha,.... think of it like the elyos and asmodian splitting apart after the tower was destroyed, they were at first the same thing but after the split they completely changed and got their own characteristics the other dosen't have. In my opinion a party that expects to be well prepared should have BOTH a chanter and a cleric, without a cleric you need to rely on pots. And Without a chanter your attributes will be far lower then if you had a chanter, making leveling slower.

If I myself had to choose between a lack of a chanter or a lack of a priest (don't kill me for this.)
I'd have to say I'd choose to get rid of the priest (told ya so.). My explination is simple, a chanter increases your stats (ie: defence, and hp regeneration and mp regeneration) with their buff's and mantras, and the buffs and mantra can stack and increase it even more signifigantly. This increases your stat's a whole lot and can (if the chanter is smart and knows wtf they are doing) increase your defence to where you don't need to worry about a healer because your hp potions can heal yourself well enough that you aren't dying; thus completely making the cleric irrelevant.

Whereas if you had a cleric you WOULD be guaranteed life, however your stats would remain the same (sure they got a few buffs but they don't do as much as a chanter..) and you would be relying on your own defence and attack to get the job done.

Pros of a chanter only:
-Increased stats, thus you can kill things faster.
-They can preform dps on a target.
-Can provide MINIMAL healing.
-Can stack Mantra and Buff's to make you... Buff (lawl)

Con's of a chanter only:
-They cannot heal, and as such your relying on pots and your own awareness, they will most likely be fighting along side you dealing dps after they activate their mantra and buff the entire party, rather then a cleric standing on the sidelines waiting for your hp to drop for them to heal asap.
-LOW healing, they cannot heal as high as a pot can heal you, thus their healing becomes obsolete early on (well.. lets say midway.)

Pros of a cleric only:
-Healing of hell, you won't die with a well played cleric.
-Can provide MINIMAL buffing.
-Can stack gradual healing and direct deposit healing to provide excellent hp recovery.

Con's of a cleric only:
-You are fully relying on your own equiptment and abilities, there is no increase in attack or defence, they do have buffs but are minimal.
-They cannot provide dps worthy of calling dps.


Now if your soloing.. which if your reading this you're probably thinking of making your own chanter or cleric...

Chanter:
-Higher stats in all area's compared to cleric, although I think magic attack is the same for both.
-From what I've seen chanter's can stun and slow opponents with multiple buffs (I'm not sure if its self buff or a buff you can cast on others... this one I'm talking about is where if your hit then the thing that hit you get's slowerd down like 60%)
-In PvP will most likely be equal in power to the warrior and gladiator classes (similar play style) WHILE FULLY BUFFED
-Will want to get in close to the target to attack, limited long range attacks.

Cleric:
-Lower stats in all area's compared to chanter, although I think magic attack is the same for both.
-From what I've seen clerics are limited on stun abilities and slowing abilities, but they have a few.
-They got this pew pew turret thing (<3 it) which acts SIMILAR to a spiritmaster's summons.
-In PvP they will rely on "outlasting" their target, they will most likely be lower in all stats compared to any other class and rely on slowly hammering away at the target's hitpoints while going heal psycho.


FINALLY in summary: I think they both are unique classes and shouldn't be compared to eachother, one buff's and one heals. Both are not NEEDED, but we all want both.

[Dreams]

I am joining Aion with a friend of mine, and I am rolling a Gladiator and he is rolling a Chanter. He wants to run around and heal me, help me out, etc. While I DPS things down. Seems like from reading this topic he should roll a Cleric? Hmmmm.

[Xplicit]

Im getting the feeling that not many people posting in this thread have played L2...

Cleric is THE healer... You want one of these to walk away from any hardcore fight...
Chanter is THE buffer... You want one of these to prepare you for any hardcore fight...

They both have great purposes but please dont roll a chanter if your wanting to heal.

[poorbuggers]

All I know, is the chanter (based on all I've read and watched) seems to be able to hold his own in battle. I think as long as you keep him buffed, he'll be kind of like a weaker gladiator with less armor (but can buff and heal himself). I just plan on getting him sigma to learn heavy armor and polearm (if the skills aren't staff only).

That's simply because the heavy armor looks so incredibly bad ***, yet I want to be a Chanter.