Healers are OTT

[Rim]

Originally Posted by 4straea

The guy probably spammed heal because he couldn't get out of your silence/stun etc. long enough to do anything else. I play a chanter, currently level 34. I don't pvp often because I know that I am not matched 1v1 against other classes right now. Our smite does not level up with us so, there is no real point in even trying that. When I was level 33 I dueled a ranger in my legion for fun who was level 31 and although I did beat him, it took a long time. I was frozen or my movement was slowed most of the time so the only chance I had was to hope to get lucky and use binding word (which is useful at times, btw) to keep him from kiting and I was able to catch up to him to get one melee attack off on him. This repeated for probably 10 minutes, against a level 31 ranger. That includes the things of his that I resisted. Chanter is by noooo means OP. We have to really work for our kills in PvP, therefor so does anyone who wants to kill us.

Chanters are easymode for me and I definitely feel they need to be buffed. I've only had one problem with a chanter and that was a totally twinked out guy. Only reason I died was b/c a SM added in, but I never could kill the guy since I was lvl 28, he was lvl 25 and had over 3k hp, orange staff, etc.......Twinked.

Clerics are the ones I have issues with. Honestly, I think they might hit harder than Chanters which is incredibly unfair to those playing Chanters.

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Originally Posted by Atchoo

sorry, but your just doing it wrong if you cant pressure/kill a cleric, or facing clerics that wastly outgear/outlevel you..

That doesn't really help, just saying I'm doing it wrong. A lot of players are still learning how to play their class, so even leveled, even geared clerics aren't ridiculous, but anyone with some pots and skill would be nearly impossible to take down. I'm kind of perplexed by how many clerics I've fought that don't use a pot.

Silence can be potted. That insta-heal thing is on a decently short CD. (Not sure exactly.) Flash of Recovery or something, that's the big thing that prevents me from killing them.

I really have to be strategic in killing clerics 1v1, and chances are I still won't if they use the consumables available to them which most don't. I have to "goad" them into thinking their health is ok and they can DPS me down, which surprisingly, I've found, can happen.

Then I have to hope everything lands, I don't get totally owned by the RoG on stunning/rupture, and that they don't use consumables.

Again, my opinion is that clerics should have to rely on their group to get their uber healing which they can do which I've already stated in a long paragraph that I'm not going to retype hehe. I'm fine with an focused healer being able to keep one guy up under heavy DPS, I'm not against that, but being able to do that, take hits, and then also dish out damage is OP.

[Atchoo]

Originally Posted by Rim

Chanters are easymode for me and I definitely feel they need to be buffed. I've only had one problem with a chanter and that was a totally twinked out guy. Only reason I died was b/c a SM added in, but I never could kill the guy since I was lvl 28, he was lvl 25 and had over 3k hp, orange staff, etc.......Twinked.

Clerics are the ones I have issues with. Honestly, I think they might hit harder than Chanters which is incredibly unfair to those playing Chanters.

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That doesn't really help, just saying I'm doing it wrong. A lot of players are still learning how to play their class, so even leveled, even geared clerics aren't ridiculous, but anyone with some pots and skill would be nearly impossible to take down. I'm kind of perplexed by how many clerics I've fought that don't use a pot.

Silence can be potted. That insta-heal thing is on a decently short CD. (Not sure exactly.) Flash of Recovery or something, that's the big thing that prevents me from killing them.

I really have to be strategic in killing clerics 1v1, and chances are I still won't if they use the consumables available to them which most don't. I have to "goad" them into thinking their health is ok and they can DPS me down, which surprisingly, I've found, can happen.

Then I have to hope everything lands, I don't get totally owned by the RoG on stunning/rupture, and that they don't use consumables.

Again, my opinion is that clerics should have to rely on their group to get their uber healing which they can do which I've already stated in a long paragraph that I'm not going to retype hehe. I'm fine with an focused healer being able to keep one guy up under heavy DPS, I'm not against that, but being able to do that, take hits, and then also dish out damage is OP.

i can give you one small tip, to get you started in thinking out of the box: use mobs if there are any around, and ill leave it to you to figure out how that can be done

[Balrak]

Originally Posted by Reavan

Really.

Just spent half an hour trying to fight a chanter whom was one level above me, he just practically stood there pressing Healing Light.

You apparently are mad that a healing class is able to heal? I am confused....

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Try to save all of your burst skills and get him down to about 50-75% health. Many times healers get nyerky when they realize you are not doing that much damage to them so they stop healing themselves as frequently and allow thier HP to go a little low in favor of trying to damage you, thinking that they will just be able to health to full if they get too low. Thats when you unleash all of your burst damage and cc.

Thats how I beat clerics, and I AM a cleric.

[Rim]

Originally Posted by Atchoo

i can give you one small tip, to get you started in thinking out of the box: use mobs if there are any around, and ill leave it to you to figure out how that can be done

So I have to rely on mobs to kill a cleric? What happens when the fight goes to the air where there aren't any mobs.....

(BTW, I actually have used mobs to a kill a cleric once. Was playing a friend's assassin and JUST didn't have enough DPS to kill the guy, so I gave him a short KB into a mob. Was pretty funny. But anyways, that's beyond the point.)

One class shouldn't have to rely on NPC's to kill another class.

[Amadaeo]

If a cleric could not survive being wailed on by himself, he would be useless in PVP, especially mass PVP. He would implode upon hitting the abyss, let alone a siege.

'Let the group...' It doesn't work that way. Not only do our heals aggro every mob within range (including mobs hitting people outside your own group), but we're the target of every PC trying to take down the group.

If we're overpowered 1v1, it's because fights for Clerics are rarely 1v1. It's the Cleric vs the mob and his add friends, or the whole opposite side, because those things rightfully are trying to take us out so they can wipe the rest of the party.

'Then gimp their damage!' Excuse me? This is a PvPvE game and I would like to level, too. I don't exist just to be your healbot or your AP farm. We get extra damage in the next update, yes, but that is on a skill that is the second in a chain which starts with a spell that has a three second cast-- IE, we can't use it against classes that can interrupt anything with a long cast time. If I can get a Smite chain off, you are not doing it right.

If you want to beat me in PVP, learn to play. There are ways to shut us down.

'But I can't beat one 1v1! I should be able to...' Like I said. Clerics rarely get a 1v1 fight. We have to be able to put out damage or we are unplayable and can't level, and the skill they are upgrading is one of the hardest to get off. Every other class is capable of soloing, and now you want healers to be able to do literally nothing but support you or die? They already have to heal you because you chose a class that couldn't heal itself.

Talk about selfish. 'Yes, not only do you exist to do NOTHING but heal me so I can slay things, you are not allowed to be able to defend yourself, even though you are invariably going to be EVERYONE'S target in a game that does not limit the size of the party trying to gank you. Now, get down on your knees and suck my nyerk. No, that's just your job. Oh, and remind me to tell you how terribad you are at healing when we group together and everyone attacks you whilst ignoring me until you're dead. Wait, you're ten levels below me?'

'I can't level on my own. I can only level if I can find a group. Yes, even at weirdass o'clock when not much folks are around. Then I just sit around whilst my friends shoot up past me because they can solo on their own time.'

'How are you supposed to be my healer, then?'

'nyerked if I know, you're the wanker who wanted me to be a healbot. You never actually bothered to think about how you gimped my class because I made your epeen feel tiny.'

The only reason Clerics can level at all in Guild Wars, as they are squishies who wear cloth and have little offensive capability (apart from really specialised builds for really specialised scenarios, usually for farming), is to bring NPCs or Heroes (player-controlled NPCS) along while they 'solo'. Aion has no option for that at all. Removing a Cleric's ability to do damage means that you will have very, very few Clerics who ever hit level 50 because they won't be able to keep up with the rest of the classes-- and they are already, I am told, among the slowest to level. (So much for our famed DPS.)

But hey, if you want a massive shortage of the people tasked with keeping a whole party alive whilst being the most targeted person in said party, you go right ahead, and see how long your group PVP lasts.

I've played a healer with little offensive capability. Aion's PVP and PVE would simply make that kind of class impossible to play.

[Atchoo]

Originally Posted by Rim

So I have to rely on mobs to kill a cleric? What happens when the fight goes to the air where there aren't any mobs.....

(BTW, I actually have used mobs to a kill a cleric once. Was playing a friend's assassin and JUST didn't have enough DPS to kill the guy, so I gave him a short KB into a mob. Was pretty funny. But anyways, that's beyond the point.)

One class shouldn't have to rely on NPC's to kill another class.

i gave you a new option (aparently not new since you allready have used this on your sin): i gave you one solution to help you, its not the only one. as a ranger with all your stuns/kb on critt, i really dont see how you cant kill them fast enough, bad bow and gear?



Btw. As a templar. In "vs cleric fight" its a really really boring and long battle. neither can take the other down fast, unless wastly outgearing/outlevel the other or not bothering with pot. Yes a templar with everything on cooldown will die to a cleric, but he will also die to every other class out there, welcome to templar "cooldowns needed".

[Blasa]

I love how nobody has mentioned this simple solution: if a fight is in a stalemate, fly away, or bring your friends. The OP is a retard because they wasted 30 minutes of their life trying to fight a battle that was going nowhere.

This game is not based off 1v1.

[Aroihkin]

Originally Posted by Blasa

The OP is a retard because they wasted 30 minutes of their life trying to fight a battle that was going nowhere.

This.

01234567890

[Chibinator]

Anyone that says clerics need to die easily by 1 person should gtfo right now. This isn't a 1v1 game, if a cleric gets pressured enough to not even outlive 1 person while kiting (and i am saying this because 45+ everyone gets so much more dmg from advanced stigmas that clerics can only keep up with their OP as **** blessed shield+ dots combo...which btw used to heal for 200% more, so it was 2k dots per 2 sec for 20 sec not 1k per 2 sec, already got nerfed on that). Do we do a lot of dmg? Yes, between 42 and 45, we do more than the average person, in fact, 3rd in dmg. After 45, **** hits the pavement. Focus shots = 2k+ pvp crits. Ice harpoon doing 1.7k dmg on an mres cleric, + frost for 1k + instant earth chunk of rape for another 1k. SMs get another debuff move of absolute pwn, that btw does more dmg than the other 1 that does 1k+. Templars get fear, " I tank your whole party for 30 secs skills of omfg can't debuff that **** off moves". Assasins...haha, alright, assasins are still weak as **** unless they gank you on the ground, and gladdies with their "I keep your face on the ground and you moan in pleasure" crit passives are just wtfpwn amazing distractions when ignored in a group. So in fact, unless you do stand in the back and nyerking kite like there's no tomorrow, you're nyerked, and yes, even 1 person can kill you while you're trying to heal your team and not just yourself from 1 person's dmg, making a group fight into 6 1v1 fights.

So in fact, closer to 50, game gets way more balanced, but if you don't know what you're doing you'll suck anyway.

[Critical.]

Game is not balanced 1v1.

[Rim]

Originally Posted by Atchoo

i gave you a new option (aparently not new since you allready have used this on your sin): i gave you one solution to help you, its not the only one. as a ranger with all your stuns/kb on critt, i really dont see how you cant kill them fast enough, bad bow and gear?

You've still yet to give me advice on what to do when the fight goes to the air and there are 0 mobs around. Again, I shouldn't have to rely on NPC's to help me kill someone that is similarly leveled, geared, skilled.

Stun/KB on a crit is a low % chance of happening. I think like something around 10% chance when you get a crit, which is 34% chance on me right now.

My gear does not suck. It's not the best, but it definitely does not suck.

http://na.aiononline.com/livestatus/...750&serverID=8

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Originally Posted by Amadaeo

If a cleric could not survive being wailed on by himself, he would be useless in PVP, especially mass PVP. He would implode upon hitting the abyss, let alone a siege.

'Let the group...' It doesn't work that way. Not only do our heals aggro every mob within range (including mobs hitting people outside your own group), but we're the target of every PC trying to take down the group.

If we're overpowered 1v1, it's because fights for Clerics are rarely 1v1. It's the Cleric vs the mob and his add friends, or the whole opposite side, because those things rightfully are trying to take us out so they can wipe the rest of the party.

'Then gimp their damage!' Excuse me? This is a PvPvE game and I would like to level, too. I don't exist just to be your healbot or your AP farm. We get extra damage in the next update, yes, but that is on a skill that is the second in a chain which starts with a spell that has a three second cast-- IE, we can't use it against classes that can interrupt anything with a long cast time. If I can get a Smite chain off, you are not doing it right.

If you want to beat me in PVP, learn to play. There are ways to shut us down.

'I can't level on my own. I can only level if I can find a group. Yes, even at weirdass o'clock when not much folks are around. Then I just sit around whilst my friends shoot up past me because they can solo on their own time.'

So then what do you say to the chanter that has worse heals than you and their damage is nothing special compared to yours? In all my cleric vs. chanter fights, clerics are way more deadly than chanters damage-wise.

Yes, as a group class (healer), you should rely on your group to keep you alive. You should have the skills to POSTPONE your death a little while to give your group some reaction time, but it is incredibly OP if you have the ability to keep yourself alive under someone's fire all by yourself if we're talking similar gear/level/skill and, of course, you are getting hit by a pure DPS class.

For the classes that thrive in solo/very small-scale combat but are gimped in large-scale combat, it is very, very unfair that another class can excel in both.

If your group does not help you, you deserve to die because that's what a stealth DPS's job is. We kill the casters and healers from behind, inevitably we will probably die, but still. If we're not given the tools, or you have too many tools that make you unkillable alone, then there is no reason for our classes.

Again, I'm not saying we should come up and roflstomp all clerics we see, that's not the point. I'm saying that cleric should have some abilities that postpone his death a few seconds to give his group time to react, but if they don't react then the guy should go down.

In no way would that make clerics useless because good groups would protect their clerics, not allowing them to die.

[Anix]

-Agrees with everything Rim says-

I was fighting a Cleric 3 levels lower than me, he had about the same gear. He was doing more damage than me. I fail to see why a Cleric should be able to hit harder than a Chanter. Yes, I know we're a support class, but so are they.

Just look at their DP move. How could anyone say that isn't OP? A lone Cleric should not be able to wipe a party with just one skill, even if it is a DP move with an hour cooldown.

Not to mention their over the top Root skill, why the hell do they even have a CC anyway? And with a.. what 6 second cooldown? Chanters only get one ranged skill and a waste of a stigma bind spell, and even then the stun isn't 100%.

I don't agree with nerfing the heals, thats their job. But to do high damage on top of it? And to be able to CC?

As for the people who are saying Chanters are OP.... nyerking. LOL.

[ikrz]

Originally Posted by Critical.

Game is not balanced 1v1.

Are you saying it should be balanced for Team vs 1 cleric?
Sorry, your completely ignorant argument has been proven false many times in this very thread already... bother to read it.

[Nyd]

Originally Posted by Anix

-Agrees with everything Rim says-

I was fighting a Cleric 3 levels lower than me, he had about the same gear. He was doing more damage than me. I fail to see why a Cleric should be able to hit harder than a Chanter. Yes, I know we're a support class, but so are they.

Just look at their DP move. How could anyone say that isn't OP? A lone Cleric should not be able to wipe a party with just one skill, even if it is a DP move with an hour cooldown.

Right, because a dispellable DoT with an hour-long cooldown is OP. If your party gets wiped by a single Cleric, that's not the skill being overpowered, that's your party's Cleric being terrible. Anyone who carries a CC pot (which is just about everyone) can make WoD completely nyerking useless. The only time I've been able to use it to get kills is in fort sieges, where people tunnel-vision on killing/defending the boss and don't notice their debuffs. Seriously, anybody who dies to WoD is either in a party with a terrible healer, too stupid to carry CC pots, AFK, or level 15.

Not to mention their over the top Root skill, why the hell do they even have a CC anyway? And with a.. what 6 second cooldown? Chanters only get one ranged skill and a waste of a stigma bind spell, and even then the stun isn't 100%.

I don't agree with nerfing the heals, thats their job. But to do high damage on top of it? And to be able to CC?

As for the people who are saying Chanters are OP.... nyerking. LOL.

25m range, 10 second cooldown, 6 second duration, breaks on most damage, and is dispellable. Root 1 is hardly a CC, and we have it to counter Melee classes. Clerics have to sit there and whittle away at peoples' health. The "burst" comes in the form of a 20% chance proc off our second skill in a chain. It also has a 15m range; almost half that of our other two skills in the chain. That means in order for us to get our burst, we have to get TWO non-resisted casts while keeping you within 25m, have the 20% chance proc, close the gap to 15m in the 2 or 3 seconds we have to activate Divine Spark, and hope it's not resisted.
The other 'burst' we get is at level 42, has twice the cooldown of our melee skill, activates the melee skill cooldown, and leads into either our low-damage, low-chance-to-stun skill, or Divine Touch.
Yes, if I get lucky against an unprepared, equal-level player that isn't a Sorc, SM, or Temp, I can burst about 70% of their health before they turn around and stun, silence, root, or otherwise CC me while they pop a health pot.

In order to make Healers viable in PvP, we need the survivability and damage that we have. It's true that the game isn't balanced around 1v1, but no class should ever be an easy kill. 95% of my 1v1 fights have come down to either skill, level, or the RNG.

tl;dr:
Healers aren't squishy anymore. Stop expecting us to fall over in a light breeze.

[Mungyun]

People with heals heal when they cant do anything else. What do you expect? Them to just say 'ok, all im doing is healing myself' and let you kill them?