The Rock Paper Scissors Formula

[lucifear]

Originally Posted by Slaggathor

Healer: Beat thanks, beat sorcerers, beat scouts, get feared by sm's

just gonna fix it a bit more since SMs dont belong in the same cathegory as sorcs

Healer: Beat tanks, beat sorcerers, beat scouts, get feared by sm's

Sorc: Beat healers, lose to scouts, even fight with tanks

Tanks: Beat scouts, lose to healers, even fight with mages

Scouts: Beat casters, lose to tanks, even fight with healers.

SM:beat tanks, beat sorcerers, beat scouts, beat healers, beat entire groups, have perfectly 3 perfectly ballanced fear skills+shitloads of CC and other disables+high DPS and DoTs+a pet

[mrJones]

lol at telling that sorcs are paper, top k-aion sorcs have 10K+ hp and 1K absorb on top

compare this to scout classes, top rangers have 6K hp.


and lol at all those insta-casts ncsoft gave to sorcs, sorcs in melee ranger do more damage with freezing wind and faster then assassins. makes sence to give rdps class more burst at melee range then pure mdps

[Derrien]

Originally Posted by Dabrixmgp

Agree at level 50 SMs are Mushrooms because they offer nothing what so ever in group PvP.

ehm yeah, right. except for the by far the most powerfull group-pvp spell -> aoe fear.

[Wreckus]

Fear > Rock > Paper > Scissors < Fear

[Blackedout]

Originally Posted by Derrien

ehm yeah, right. except for the by far the most powerfull group-pvp spell -> aoe fear.

Was going to say this as well. Aoe Fear = Dredgion win.

[Volacious]

Originally Posted by Dabrixmgp

Agree at level 50 SMs are Mushrooms because they offer nothing what so ever in group PvP. But why chanters where they are. Saying they are raid bosses would be saying chanters can rape face the same way Arms wariors did during TBC and also the same way Ret pallies raped face during WOtLK. Chanters just cant have the DPS that both of those classes put out while also haveing the self healing spells.

I'd strongly disagree with the idea that 50 SMs offer nothing in group PVP.

[Alilei]

Originally Posted by Volacious

I'd strongly disagree with the idea that 50 SMs offer nothing in group PVP.

Then why are SMs the least played class both here and Korea? DoTs dont stack and get pushed off debuff list very fast and pets dont scale either. SMs are basically 3rd rate wanna be sorcerers.

[lucifear]

Originally Posted by Alilei

Then why are SMs the least played class both here and Korea? DoTs dont stack and get pushed off debuff list very fast and pets dont scale either. SMs are basically 3rd rate wanna be sorcerers.

then why is WoW played by so many people?

number of users/players dont mean anything

[Neriine]

Originally Posted by lucifear

then why is WoW played by so many people?

number of users/players dont mean anything

Actually class numbers usually mean something no matter what game Just look at the numbers in WoW of Ret Pallies and DKs. They are so high cause they are easy faceroll classes that take no skill.

The extremely low numbers of SMs either means
1) They totally suck at 50 which is why the Koreans dont play them
2) They ARE NOT a faceroll class and take skill which is why people dont play them cause they want easy class
3) They are broke: non stacking DoTs, non scaling pets drive people away from them

[Balrak]

Originally Posted by Volacious

Is the below how its intended?


Healers: Beat tanks, lose to mages, even fight with scouts

Mages: Beat healers, lose to scouts, even fight with tanks

Tanks: Beat scouts, lose to healers, even fight with mages

Scouts: Beat casters, lose to tanks, even fight with healers.


Lots of talk of rock paper scissors, but never seen anyone actually put it down on paper.

- Vol

If a game was this shallow, do you really think anyone would play it? Any class can beat any other class. Its the player that makes the difference.

[Eshestun]

you guys must not have fought very high level sorcs if you think clerics can still beat sorcs at higher levels.

Between silence, aether hold, and inferno, etc. I can barely get a few seconds of healing in before I go splat.

[Amadaeo]

Originally Posted by Eshestun

you guys must not have fought very high level sorcs if you think clerics can still beat sorcs at higher levels.

Between silence, aether hold, and inferno, etc. I can barely get a few seconds of healing in before I go splat.

I have been told quite often, and I must take their word of course, that if a Cleric can't win a fight, it is simply that he fails, as Clerics are OP and can out-DPS every other class.

No, no, nevermind that a lot of good clerics lose to good Sorcs and other classes, no. You just fail because you are so OP that you should be able to faceroll everything. Period. Because you can chain unbreakable roots and spam massive heals and throw constant nukes.

At the same time.

Uh huh.

[Somnia_]

Originally Posted by Eshestun

you guys must not have fought very high level sorcs if you think clerics can still beat sorcs at higher levels.

Between silence, aether hold, and inferno, etc. I can barely get a few seconds of healing in before I go splat.

This is true, except for aetherhold. You should be flying at all times against sorcerer.
As a level 50 Cleric, I can beat every other lvl 50 class EXCEPT sorcerer with minimal effort and NO pots used. Geared sorcs are only beatable with pots, but they're definitely no paper to my rock. I can't kill chanter or opposing clerics, but they can't kill you either. Spiritmaster is really easy for Clerics, I don't know what 99% of you are smoking.

Cleric is OP 1v1, as it should be.

[Amadaeo]

Originally Posted by Somnia_

This is true, except for aetherhold. You should be flying at all times against sorcerer.
As a level 50 Cleric, I can beat every other lvl 50 class EXCEPT sorcerer with minimal effort and NO pots used. Geared sorcs are only beatable with pots, but they're definitely no paper to my rock. I can't kill chanter or opposing clerics, but they can't kill you either. Spiritmaster is really easy for Clerics, I don't know what 99% of you are smoking.

Cleric is OP 1v1, as it should be.

Part of that does have to do with playstyle, too. If you're carving through SMs and others are struggling, you've evidently mastered your class. There are other folks in other classes who do the same.

On the other hand, Chanters should feel better about endgame. XD If we're OP and we can't beat them, I think that means they're OP too.

[OdessaEU]

Originally Posted by Volacious

Healers: Beat tanks, lose to mages, even fight with scouts

Mages: Beat healers, lose to scouts, even fight with tanks

Tanks: Beat scouts, lose to healers, even fight with mages

Scouts: Beat casters, lose to tanks, even fight with healers.

Basically it should be
Caster/Range DD > Tank > Melee DD > Healer/Supporter > Caster... hence and repeat.

Why and how to accomplish?

1. Give Tanks high PDef, but very low to no MDef. This way, Tanks get very low damage from melee DDs, while leaving them very vulnerable to magical/ranged attacks. Give them slow and after dodge/block skills. After dodge should work if your target dodges, allowing him to do big damage on melee DDs (because they dodge often, but casters and healers rarely if ever dodge). After block skills should help them do damage, when they got attacked by melee DDs
2. Give Melees high PAtk, but low MDef and Low PDef, so they can do good to high damage on healer/casters, but puny damage on tanks. Give them some interrupts which are only trigger-able to heals. So they can stun/interrupt healers, but not casters.
3. Give Healers high MDef to protect against casters, and low to moderate melee dmg, so they can kill casters but not melees. Also give healers the ability to dispell themselves, so they can remove the CCs from casters and kill casters this way. This way caster/ranged DDs can't keep the healer CC'd, but melees can.
4. Give Casters high Matk to nuke down tanks, but give them low PDef so they are vulnerable to healers and other melees. To balance this a bit more, melee DDs should be vulnerable to ranged classes CC.

To compensate for all that weaknesses you need at least each archetype in a group. If you lack in one of those classes, your group would (and should) be at major disadvantage against a group who has each of this classes.

That's called Balance.