[Another] Why I'm leaving Aion thread.

[Neb]

Originally Posted by TOloseGT

Unfortunately Aion fanboys are the most elitist and mind numbingly dumb people on the internet.

Show me someone who denies that crashing is an issue.

Please. Find a quote. Show me someone who said "NCSoft shouldn't fix it."

Let see these Fanboys.

[Whatislove]

Originally Posted by Disquette

I agree. NC Soft should make the game however they want to make it. It is quite unreasonable for a software developer to offer a product which has to take into account the operating system that it will run on.

It's just like when I bought my car that is 12 feet wide. I can't drive on any roads. The car is FINE! It runs like a dream, but those stupid road makers are at fault because they didn't build the roads wide enough for my car.

I said it isnt ENTIRELY ncsofts fault.

They want this game to be visually stunning, the problem is, when 800 visually stunning characters all crowd into a single small room and spam visually stunning skills and aoe's the game tends to reach a point in which windows doesnt like it anymore.

Actually, if i remember correctly, WoW had an extremely similiar crashing issue which happened when many characters aoe'd in a small space, it took quite awhile to fix.

But ill say it again, this problem is not wide-spread AND there are already several work-arounds and fixes out there, do you just expect to one day log on without you doing a single thing and everything will be fixed? it is rarely ever like that in any mmo, including wow.

When i had performance problems in wow, i spent 2 months talking back and fourth with a level 2 blizz tech, trying 50+ different solutions before we figured out what was wrong and how to fix it, and get this, I had to actually do something, not blizzard.

Also, we have had a post in this thread that linked a ncsoft tech email stating they were working on the problem and a fix would be introduced next patch, what more do you want?

Problems TAKE TIME to fix, like everything else in the world does.

So you are hungry now but dinner isnt going to be ready for 40 minutes, what are you guna do? whinge and complain to somehow make it cook faster?

[Omalina]

Originally Posted by Whatislove

Wow, you are ignorant.

Why dont you actually research the crashing problem, it IS a microsoft windows error, once aion.bin reaches 2gb windows crashes it because a windows process cannot reach more than 2gb.

This isnt the first game to have this EXACT type of crash, in the COD4 beta, many people where having THIS EXACT CRASH, caused by windows, their solution? drop the max graphics settings so the COD4 process wouldnt reach 2gb.

If NCsoft simply dropped graphics settings we would still have QQ about how lame the graphics are now, this wasnt a wide-spread problem in Kaion or Caion and it isnt a widespread problem now.

There are actually like 5 fixes already out there, the easiest one being, drop your graphics settings during fort raids, then there is screwing around with the aion.bin and then there is screwing around with windows itself to allow a process to grow to 3gb rather than just 2.

The crash is caused by a fundamental flaw in the windows operating system, it isnt entirely NCsofts fault unless you want to blame NCsoft for making the graphics too good.

Not true on 64 bit systems dude. Windows 64 can address terabytes of RAM and most crashes are happening on 64 bit systems.

It's not Windows, it's Aion. There's a person on this site who has made a patch for the game to increase the amount which the game handles and trimmed some of the code which the game requests on launch.

[RockSolid]

Patch 1.5.1 helps with most NA player issues, let us wait for the second half of patch 1.5.1 notes today.

[Whatislove]

Originally Posted by Omalina

Not true on 64 bit systems dude. Windows 64 can address terabytes of RAM and most crashes are happening on 64 bit systems.

It's not Windows, it's Aion. There's a person on this site who has made a patch for the game to increase the amount which the game handles and trimmed some of the code which the game requests on launch.

Aion is a 32-bit application, it will run in 32-bit mode whether you want it to or not so it retains the limitations of 2gb memory allocation before crashing.

[Omalina]

Originally Posted by Whatislove

Aion is a 32-bit application, it will run in 32-bit mode whether you want it to or not so it retains the limitations of 2gb memory allocation before crashing.

Hence the crashing.

You said:

Originally Posted by Whatislove

Wow, you are ignorant.

Why dont you actually research the crashing problem, it IS a microsoft windows error, once aion.bin reaches 2gb windows crashes it because a windows process cannot reach more than 2gb.

The 32-bit limitation can be lifted. Someone on this site has hacked the client and done just that.

However, it's legality and EULA breaching hasn't been confirmed whether it'll get you banned or not.

EDIT: You said it's a Windows error and flamed someone for being upset that it was a game issue. It is a game issue, not a Windows issue.

[Whatislove]

Originally Posted by Omalina

Hence the crashing.

You said:



The 32-bit limitation can be lifted. Someone on this site has hacked the client and done just that.

However, it's legality and EULA breaching hasn't been confirmed whether it'll get you banned or not.

EDIT: You said it's a Windows error and flamed someone for being upset that it was a game issue. It is a game issue, not a Windows issue.

It isnt a game issue, it is an issue caused by the standard of all operating system applications when this was in development, if 64-bit had been the standard at the time, none of this wouldve happened as the game would've been developed under those conditions. (for 64-bit OS users)

Are you trying to say that all 32-bit applications are now in fault?

And besides, even if you did change this game to a 64-bit application, what happens to all the people still running a 32-bit OS and crashing?

[Omalina]

Originally Posted by Whatislove

It isnt a game issue, it is an issue caused by the standard of all operating system applications when this was in development, if 64-bit had been the standard at the time, none of this wouldve happened as the game would've been developed under those conditions.

Are you trying to say that all 32-bit applications are now in fault?

And besides, even if you did change this game to a 64-bit application, what happens to all the people still running a 32-bit OS and crashing?

You do realize that you've contradicted yourself, twice.

[Whatislove]

Originally Posted by Omalina

You do realize that you've contradicted yourself, twice.

editted for clarification

[Omalina]

Originally Posted by Whatislove

It isnt a game issue, it is an issue caused by the standard of all operating system applications when this was in development, if 64-bit had been the standard at the time, none of this wouldve happened as the game would've been developed under those conditions. (for 64-bit OS users)

Are you trying to say that all 32-bit applications are now in fault?

And besides, even if you did change this game to a 64-bit application, what happens to all the people still running a 32-bit OS and crashing?

It's poor coding on the people who modified the Crysis engine to fit Aion's needs for not planning ahead to have better support 64 bit operating systems and better memory handling.

Nothing more.

It's not the fault of the operating system in any manner, what-so-ever when someone writes code that is not compatible with it.

[Inzi]

Originally Posted by Whatislove

It isnt a game issue, it is an issue caused by the standard of all operating system applications when this was in development, if 64-bit had been the standard at the time, none of this wouldve happened as the game would've been developed under those conditions. (for 64-bit OS users)

As programmer myself I have only one word to reply here: rubbish.

First 64 bit processor was released in the begin of 2003.
Windows XP 64 was released in the begin of 2005.

Originally Posted by Whatislove

Are you trying to say that all 32-bit applications are now in fault?

Uh-uh, why AoC had no such problems (in fact, there were memory leaks and other nasty stuff but we are not talking about bugs right now)? It's 32 bit too. Only what they had to do is to enable LAA (Large Address Aware) when building the application. That would extend process address space limit beyond 2GB.
It works BOTH for 32 and 64 bit Windows.

[Alumar]

Originally Posted by Neb

Show me someone who denies that crashing is an issue.

Please. Find a quote. Show me someone who said "NCSoft shouldn't fix it."

Let see these Fanboys.

I haven't had a problem crashing, but maybe it's bc my computer is a little odler... and I still run 32 bit =-0

My friends have had crashing issues. It definitely needs to be fixed. I don't think ANYONE denies that.

[Omalina]

Originally Posted by Inzi

As programmer myself I have only one word to reply here: rubbish.

First 64 bit processor was released in the begin of 2003.
Windows XP 64 was released in the begin of 2005.


Uh-uh, why AoC had no such problems (in fact, there were memory leaks and other nasty stuff but we are not talking about bugs right now)? It's 32 bit too. Only what they had to do is to enable LAA (Large Address Aware) when building the application. That would extend process address space limit beyond 2GB.
It works BOTH for 32 and 64 bit Windows.

I wanna expand on this.

This issue with the game is not Microsoft's fault, however... MS needs to stop being so backwards thinking.

Right now the only blame I put on Windows/MS is that they still develop in 32 bit. Microsoft, in my opinion is holding up the software industry by not forcing developers to write and program in 64 bit. Issues like this game wouldn't be if they only needed to write compatibility for forward thinking, not backwards.

The main reason why 32 bit is still developed is not the end user, but the government of the USA. They dictate most computer trends in America based on what they're willing to upgrade across our military and government institutions. I know this because I was in the US military for the 98 > 2000 switch in 2002. The sad thing is that it was about a half a year before XP was launched. The US government's computer systems are far behind the mark in terms of modern technology. When we did the switch, I remember upgrading 133 Pentiums and adding 128mb of RAM to them bringing them up to a massive 256. This was at the time when XP was being launched. I would imagine that on most Military installations, they're all still on single core, 32 bit processors and is most likely one of the reasons why MS still develops 32 bit platforms.

This is not one of those Tinfoil Hat things, It's very true. The private sector usually keeps their computers up to date for productivity purposes. The government tries to milk what they have for every penny. The software they ran on and networking practices were so archaic. It was nice to get out and see how things are done on hybrid systems and platforms.

Microsoft needs to stop developing 32 bit operating systems going forward. There is no reason why Windows 7 was developed on a 32 bit platform. I am using the most powerful 32 bit, single core processor processor on my other computer as a media center PC (AMD Athalon 3200+ Barton) and it struggles on Windows 7. The operating system shouldn't be running on 32 bit. The operating system should still be backwards compatible, but they really need to start pushing software developers to think forward.

To this day, there really aren't any full 64 bit gaming engines. I want this going forward. It's superior.

[Inzi]

Originally Posted by Omalina

I wanna expand on this.

This issue with the game is not Microsoft's fault, however... MS needs to stop being so backwards thinking.

Right now the only blame I put on Windows/MS is that they still develop in 32 bit. Microsoft, in my opinion is holding up the software industry by not forcing developers to write and program in 64 bit. Issues like this game wouldn't be if they only needed to write compatibility for forward thinking, not backwards.

Well, I'd be very surprised if they dig a grave by doing that. A grave because there is already so little reason for most customers to switch from old but working fine XP to Vista/7...
Microsoft success was/is mainly because they always were targetting widest areas of the market. Unlike Apple or those who most didn't even hear about (BeOS anyone?).

Anyways, long story short, there is just waaaaay too many older PCs still in use which doesn't support IA64/x64 they just can't be throwed in the towel only because Microsoft decides so.

And, tbh, most applications doesn't even need 64 bits...

Originally Posted by Omalina

The main reason why 32 bit is still developed is not the end user, but the government of the USA. They dictate most computer trends in America based on what they're willing to upgrade across our military and government institutions. I know this because I was in the US military for the 98 > 2000 switch in 2002. The sad thing is that it was about a half a year before XP was launched. The US government's computer systems are far behind the mark in terms of modern technology.

Well, imagine if such country as USA doesn't upgrade PCs every year or two, what can be said about "less developed" countries...
The thing is, 3-4 years ago PC development had reached a point where is most of PC users don't really need anymore CPU cycles or memory bytes or even hardware space. Very few industries still pushing PC performance: gaming industry, video/audio, 3d modeling and thats about it...

Not to mention world wide financial crisis started in the first half of 2008...

Originally Posted by Omalina

When we did the switch, I remember upgrading 133 Pentiums and adding 128mb of RAM to them bringing them up to a massive 256. This was at the time when XP was being launched.

Yeah, and those upgrades were really significant. 128 MB is barely enough for XP itself. You launch 1-2 applications and system starts swaping like there is no tomorrow making it unbearable to do anything on your PC...
Nowadays 2GB is pretty much standard and very few applications using that up to full. Hell, my 200 backs netbook has 1GB of RAM and for it's tasks it's perfectly enough...

Originally Posted by Omalina

Microsoft needs to stop developing 32 bit operating systems going forward.

That will not happen anytime soon. I even highly doubt Windows 8 (which also will have 128 bit, afair) will drop 32 bit version...

Originally Posted by Omalina

There is no reason why Windows 7 was developed on a 32 bit platform. I am using the most powerful 32 bit, single core processor processor on my other computer as a media center PC (AMD Athalon 3200+ Barton) and it struggles on Windows 7. The operating system shouldn't be running on 32 bit. The operating system should still be backwards compatible, but they really need to start pushing software developers to think forward.

To this day, there really aren't any full 64 bit gaming engines. I want this going forward. It's superior.

Well, yes. Gaming industry may be in need of 64 bits quite soon - AoC and Aion are first examples why.

[Omalina]

You missed the point.

Windows 7 did not need to be developed in 32 bit. It's backwards compatible. Furthermore, if you don't have a powerful enough, up-to-date computer to run it than you won't be. Not sure if I can think of the words to explain this better.

Windows XP can continue to function and operate as it did. However, going forward, there's no reason Microsoft should have developed another 32 bit platform.