Ranger and Assn are not welcome in a group?

[LaNague]

Originally Posted by Emotions

A lot of times DPS have a 'hard' time getting into groups in PvE games because of how many there are.

I am curious about something. A lot of people in this thread and in others talk about the relative DPS of the DPS classes and I have to ask, how do you know?

There is no DPS meter and so far I haven't found an after-fight analysis tool either.

Are these just 'feelings' that people are having or is there something I'm missing?

your missing the skill descriptions?

[Zish]

Originally Posted by Emotions

A lot of times DPS have a 'hard' time getting into groups in PvE games because of how many there are.

I am curious about something. A lot of people in this thread and in others talk about the relative DPS of the DPS classes and I have to ask, how do you know?

There is no DPS meter and so far I haven't found an after-fight analysis tool either.

Are these just 'feelings' that people are having or is there something I'm missing?

I'm sure there have been parses and other tests done.

Plus, it's only common sense that a DPS class with little to no utility will have the highest damage. Otherwise, they really would be useless.

[Ainazahalin]

Well, I guess it's depend on dps class skills too.
Normally, Mage/sorcerer get a lot AoE spell, so Tank + healer + mage no other class needed
because Tank would pull 10-50 mob at the time if other class doesn't have aoe, it will always be mage and 1 melee class stay around the priest/mage in case Tank lost aggro in High end game. But normally it wouldn't needed.

Ragnarok= Vit knight + Wizard + Priest
Shaiya = Defender + Mage + Priest
Dragon Raja = Warlord + High priest + Great wizard
Mu = Gladiator + Mage + Elf
Guild Wars = Tank warrior/Sin perma + Fire ele + Heal and Prot monk

I only play Fantasy game so that's all I can think of right now ~_~

Aion seems to be fighting 1-3 Elite mob at once, so Any Dps works fine.
In PvE, I don't really care about class, as long as they know how to play.

[Xannin]

guys dont feed the troll the great thing in Aion is all classes are welcome

[Slyist]

Originally Posted by Sed

This is common among MMOs? Which MMOs exactly?

I haven't seen many of either class but I have grouped with Assassin and its damage was fine. I've never grouped with a ranger so I have no idea.

And like above poster I wouldn't reject somebody solely because of their class. I care more about competence and attitude in a group than who should theoretically be better.

Well for example my last mmo Shaiya, assassins were generally rejected for group grinding.

Mostly because:
1. Assassins often have less capability to output damage compared to warriors/gladiators, sorcs
2. Limited to single targets and in terms of AoE's are more cc rather than dps
3. Take up spaces that stronger melee/magic attk based classes could be using.

That's mainly for my case in the previous mmo I played but there's the examples Ainazahalin pointed out for various other games.

Considering how surprised I was to find assassin among a 'Best grind group' discussion thread (think they came up with 1 gladiator, 1 assassin, 1 templar, 1 sorc and 1 cleric) I think my sin will have less of a hard time finding suitable grind groups - pretty glad for that.

[Thats Too Bad]

Im not even going to answer this thread cuz I dont want too many scouts in the game.

[deathcalls]

Despite the bashing, I play those class anyway. They are very good in PVP. They all have advantages and disadvantages.

[onision]

my group in cbt'ing consisted of this cleric(me),cleric,sin,ranger,tank,sorc now this really has no relevance but w/e rangers are crowd control and pull+dps anyone not wanting that in their group has issues. sin's just look cool and thats the only reason I need :P

[razattack]

none of you are welcome in my one man group

[Jaixen]

Assassin dps is not bad.. btw.. I gaurantee if you ran numbers of it compared to Gladiators.. it would smoke the glad's dps.

Rangers on the other hand are still good and have crowd controll- I'd invite one, they have less dps and more burst.

[tightlip]

Originally Posted by deathcalls

Any serious (higher lev) group dungeon PvE player knows this and I've played enough to know those class are not very welcome even though they beg. People rather have an extra healer, nuker, or a backup tank. Unless the group desperately needed a player because they couldn't find what they are looking for. Also, I say they are not very welcome in a group not completely unwelcome.

I see you have not played L2, or else you would know for yourself that your statement in regards too these two classes are completely false. And seeing that NCSoft produces both L2 and Aion, one can only assume that they will give the same tremendas damage dealing potential in Aion as they have in L2 for both classes

[Emotions]

Originally Posted by LaNague

your missing the skill descriptions?

I don't trust skill descriptions and such things change over time.

In the beta a few of the skill descriptions didn't match up one to one with the actual skill so, while I have read skill descriptions and class descriptions that does not actually mean anything. Class descriptions in EQ2 were totally wrong by the time I tried out EQ2. Things had changed significantly and they never updated the class descriptions. In WoW, the class descriptions were completely wrong about DPS (a prime example was that the class description for mage stated that they had no rivals in DPS and were the 'glass cannon' of the game which was untrue from Pre-BC onwards.)

I have been looking for parses of DPS but haven't found any yet. There were some hints that some of the Korean or Chinese Legions are using some sort of combat parse / DPS meter thing but I wasn't able to track that down either.

I just find it interesting to see people tossing around stuff like, "X class does good DPS" when we don't actually know what kind of DPS they are doing relative to other classes.

As for the support classes doing less DPS: Yes, one would -think- that would be the case but in a few MMOs the support classes have occasionally out DPSed pure classes. WoW had that for the longest time and again in WotLK.

I was just hoping that someone had a link to some actual numbers and not feelings.

[XileDemon]

Its just stupid not to include the premiere DPS classes in a Group/Raid where at max a Tank can handle 1-3 Elites(IMO purely). Well giving Shaiya as an example, Sins and Hunters would be the top classes for end-game PvE/PvP and thus their 'suffering' point would be that they are 'hard' to level.

Over there, the ideal Group would be Tank+Healer+Sorc/Mage(x2) 'cause you can pull 18-20 mobs at a time if you know what you're doing and where you are doing it, with Warrior as an addon sometimes, maybe due to hard mobs or low-level/mode Mage for the AoE.

So the OP has a moot point IMO, mebe he's not that good with communication skills or accidently KS'ed the Group leader's mobs at some point of time? :lol:

[deathcalls]

Originally Posted by Ainazahalin

Well, I guess it's depend on dps class skills too.
Normally, Mage/sorcerer get a lot AoE spell, so Tank + healer + mage no other class needed
because Tank would pull 10-50 mob at the time if other class doesn't have aoe, it will always be mage and 1 melee class stay around the priest/mage

Ragnarok= Vit knight + Wizard + Priest
Shaiya = Defender + Mage + Priest
Dragon Raja = Warlord + High priest + Great wizard
Mu = Gladiator + Mage + Elf
Guild Wars = Tank warrior/Sin perma + Fire ele + Heal and Prot monk

I only play Fantasy game so that's all I can think of right now ~_~

Aion seems to be fighting 1-3 Elite mob at once, so Any Dps works fine.
In PvE, I don't really care about class, as long as they know how to play.

Yes, this is exactly what I'm trying to get across.

Originally Posted by razattack

none of you are welcome in my one man group

You=Win

Originally Posted by Jaixen

Assassin dps is not bad.. btw.. I gaurantee if you ran numbers of it compared to Gladiators.. it would smoke the glad's dps.

Rangers on the other hand are still good and have crowd controll- I'd invite one, they have less dps and more burst.

Yes, if you 1v1 but group dungeon are of different requires. I've play with many Assn in my group and they die too much that people starting to think every Assn are ret@rded and that bugs me when I play one and trying to get into a group.

[XileDemon]

Yes, if you 1v1 but group dungeon are of different requires. I've play with many Assn in my group and they die too much that people starting to think every Assn are ret@rd and that bugs me when I play one and trying to get into a group.

That is what GOOD Templers are for mate . But yeah I've heard that the Assassin DPS can easily break the average Templers aggro limit, geting your Assassin arse kicked :|