More strict rules for the guides section

[Keeg]

Well I'm not going to go into detail, but some of you already know what happened, so I'm just going to leave it that. To summarize a bit about what I believe went wrong and what can be fixed is this. I had to send a report yesterday on a poster I believe was going to start a fight and derail in my thread for spam and non positive criticism. However, this report was ignored originally, so I had to press the issue further to get any thing done. Later that day it became an issue again. However, I will not sugar coat any of it, part of it was my fault and I'm sorry for it. My point however is this. I don't gain any benefit what so ever for making free guides for the Aion community. I post them b/c I like to give new players a starting point to work from and build up from there while in game. That being said I believe commenting in the guide section should be limited to answering questions relating to the topic only. In addition if something most be posted, it should be done in the form of positive criticism. There is also no reason to spam the same point, unless you feel you where unclear the first time by what you meant. I know I am not the only guide maker who has dealt with this frustration recently of the continuous spam that either goes off topic or doesn't follow the things I mentioned earlier. Thank you for taking the time to read another one of my rants and hopefully this issue can be resolved peacefully with out bringing back yesterday events; and they can be prevented in the future.

[Pharaun]

I suppose I can't really voice anything aside from the general opinion that "Yes less spam in a guide would be good." I'm assuming there's deleted stuff in your thread, because I don't see anything really blaringly detracting, aside from the discussion on lvl 10 chars vs lvl 19 mobs.

Also, it could be just that this community is a bit more immature/unmoderated: but I've seen lots of forums where there is virtually no negative spam on guides / stickies (even in, believe it or not, the World of Warcraft PvP forums *GULP*). Write a concise, accurate, and humble enough guide and you're less likely to get spam. Don't take this the wrong way, but the e-peen flex at the end of your guide doesn't help. But still, that doesn't warrant horribly off-topic straight up criticism (unless something is posted that's just flat out wrong, but that's a whole different ball game).

One possible thought would be to take actual guides and sequester them into a different location than public forums. This could be anything from a locked forum, the wiki, or a completely different section on aionsource.com. Feedback and questions would then have to go through a different channel, unfortunately :S

Also, on the topic of your guide specifically, some of the images really helped, for instance the pictures of the items used to enchant - it helps to physically see what you'd see in-game instead of just reading a text description.

[Keeg]

Originally Posted by Pharaun

I suppose I can't really voice anything aside from the general opinion that "Yes less spam in a guide would be good." I'm assuming there's deleted stuff in your thread, because I don't see anything really blaringly detracting, aside from the discussion on lvl 10 chars vs lvl 19 mobs.

Also, it could be just that this community is a bit more immature/unmoderated: but I've seen lots of forums where there is virtually no negative spam on guides / stickies (even in, believe it or not, the World of Warcraft PvP forums *GULP*). Write a concise, accurate, and humble enough guide and you're less likely to get spam. Don't take this the wrong way, but the e-peen flex at the end of your guide doesn't help. But still, that doesn't warrant horribly off-topic straight up criticism (unless something is posted that's just flat out wrong, but that's a whole different ball game).

One possible thought would be to take actual guides and sequester them into a different location than public forums. This could be anything from a locked forum, the wiki, or a completely different section on aionsource.com. Feedback and questions would then have to go through a different channel, unfortunately :S

Also, on the topic of your guide specifically, some of the images really helped, for instance the pictures of the items used to enchant - it helps to physically see what you'd see in-game instead of just reading a text description.

I'm sorry if some view that an epeen flex, as that was not my intention. I was posting what it was possible to do with +10 gear with lv 10 armor or lower. I have already stated serveral times its' not the most efficent guide, it was designed for something fun for low lvs and beta users to mess with. And I will agree with your point on the wow comment. Don't take that the wrong way though. I have talked to some of the moderators in the past, and what I can tell so far they are decent people. But as it stands now they are severly limited in what they can enforce in the guide section as the rules currently stand. Which is one of the reasons I made this thread.

[Pharaun]

Yea and I think a lot of people wouldn't see it as an e-peen flex and instead see it as cool shiny stuff, but the point is when you're making a guide for the public and you want to keep it flame-free, a good first step is to completely strip out anything that isn't on-topic and directly helpful. Maybe a shiny screenshot or two, but not a whole plethora of dead monsters.

Enforcement isn't going to improve unless there's either a drastic change in policy, an increase in the # of moderators, or a thinning of the community... trolls will be trolls.

If they do have a policy on the replies to guides, they're going to have to implement a policy on the content of guides as well, and hopefully a vetting process. It would be a good step.

Then again, perhaps this is still too new and too early... there aren't a whole lot of guides out there. It might be sufficient later in the road to just sticky & appropriately title the best guides for each topic (class, crafting, etc)

[Keeg]

Originally Posted by Pharaun

Yea and I think a lot of people wouldn't see it as an e-peen flex and instead see it as cool shiny stuff, but the point is when you're making a guide for the public and you want to keep it flame-free, a good first step is to completely strip out anything that isn't on-topic and directly helpful. Maybe a shiny screenshot or two, but not a whole plethora of dead monsters.

Enforcement isn't going to improve unless there's either a drastic change in policy, an increase in the # of moderators, or a thinning of the community... trolls will be trolls.

If they do have a policy on the replies to guides, they're going to have to implement a policy on the content of guides as well, and hopefully a vetting process. It would be a good step.

Then again, perhaps this is still too new and too early... there aren't a whole lot of guides out there. It might be sufficient later in the road to just sticky & appropriately title the best guides for each topic (class, crafting, etc)

Lol the dead monster picutres and the pics later was to prove I actually soloed them, in case some one said "omg you can't do that with +10 gear".... oh wait some one already did.....

[Pharaun]

Yea that's sort of my point though... if you want the purpose of the thread to be a guide on enchantments, posting pictures about how powerful a character is doesn't really do anything to help ward off trolls. I saw why you posted the pictures, I'm just saying it didn't surprise me that the thread got derailed.

[Keeg]

Alright then you points are valid. I will put up only the basic minium pictures next time with a no troll sign some where :P

[F8L Fool]

No offense Keeg, and I hope you take this in a constructive way...but...Walls of text like your OP really don't help your argument.

I was going to go on to say something like, "If your guides are as good as your persuasion pieces, I'd skip the guide writing altogether", but I didn't think you'd take it lightly, considering what the purpose of this thread is for, LOL!

Anyhow, I totally agree with you. People just love to start fights and give unconstructive criticism. They also love to toss in false and/or untested (basically false) information towards the guides. I'm all for people critiquing my work, and especially encourage proposing corrections.

I strongly believe that when someone steps up to help the community in any way, that admins, and other forum members, should do whatever it takes to help facilitate the implementation and success of said help. Even more so when it's something as difficult as guides that take a massive amount of time to format, research, and write.

But back to what I was saying before about the wall of text...I'm serious...lol. Please put paragraph spaces in because I almost instantly closed this thread. People make jokes about "OMG WOT!", but in all sincerity, it's truly a bad habit.

GL in your endeavours.

[Keeg]

Originally Posted by F8L Fool

No offense Keeg, and I hope you take this in a constructive way...but...Walls of text like your OP really don't help your argument.

I was going to go on to say something like, "If your guides are as good as your persuasion pieces, I'd skip the guide writing altogether", but I didn't think you'd take it lightly, considering what the purpose of this thread is for, LOL!

Anyhow, I totally agree with you. People just love to start fights and give unconstructive criticism. They also love to toss in false and/or untested (basically false) information towards the guides. I'm all for people critiquing my work, and especially encourage proposing corrections.

I strongly believe that when someone steps up to help the community in any way, that admins, and other forum members, should do whatever it takes to help facilitate the implementation and success of said help. Even more so when it's something as difficult as guides that take a massive amount of time to format, research, and write.

But back to what I was saying before about the wall of text...I'm serious...lol. Please put paragraph spaces in because I almost instantly closed this thread. People make jokes about "OMG WOT!", but in all sincerity, it's truly a bad habit.

GL in your endeavours.

Thank you for your support. Means alot when you do spend a large amount of time making a guide for the benefit for every one else; I am glad they are people that agree and can see eye to eye on this issue.
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(whistles innocently) Link: A beginners guide to leveling your gear
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I am happy to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest demonstration for guide development in the history of our website. [Applause]

Two score days ago, a great American, in whose symbolic shadow we stand made a beginner's guide. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of new players who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice of ignorance. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of ignorance.

But one hundred years later, we must face the tragic fact that the guide developer is still not free. One hundred years later, the life of the guide developer is still sadly crippled by the manacles of trolls and the chains of ignorance. One hundred years later, the guide maker lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later, the guide maker is still languishing in the corners of AionSource society and finds himself an exile in his own land. So we have come here today to dramatize an appalling condition.

In a sense we have come to our suggestion forum to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the rules thread and the declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every AionSource was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men would be guaranteed the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness in the form of posting.

It is obvious today that AionSource has defaulted on this promissory note insofar as her citizens of guide makers are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, AionSource has given the guide makers a bad check which has come back marked "insufficient rules." But we refuse to believe that the current guide rules system is not corrupt. We believe that there guide rule system is corrupt, in the great vaults of opportunity of this website. So we have come to cash this check -- a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice to guide makers. We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind AionSource of the fierce urgency of now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of guide maker oppression to the sunlit path of justice. Now is the time to open the doors of opportunity to all of AionSource's children. Now is the time to lift our website from the quicksands of guide maker oppression, to the solid rock of brotherhood.

It would be fatal for the website to overlook the urgency of the moment and to underestimate the determination of the guide maker. This sweltering summer of the guide maker's legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality for all guide makers. Two thousand and nine is not an end, but a beginning. Those who hope that the guide maker needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the website returns to business as usual. There will be neither rest nor tranquility in AionSource until the guide maker is granted his forum posting rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our website until the bright day of justice emerges for all guide makers.

But there is something that I must say to my people who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice. In the process of gaining our rightful place we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred.

We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force. The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the AionSource community must not lead us to distrust of all troll people, for many of our AionSource brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny and their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom. We cannot walk alone.

And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall march ahead. We cannot turn back. There are those who are asking the devotees of posting rights, "When will you be satisfied?" We can never be satisfied as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as the guide poster's basic mobility is from a smaller section to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as a guide maker in Mississippi cannot vote and a guide maker in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream of wall of text.

I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from basement. Some of you have come from areas where your quest for freedom in Aion left you battered by the storms of persecution. Staggered by the winds of moderation brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive.

Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to Georgia, go back to Louisiana, go back to the basement and the forums of our AionSource, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed. Let us not wallow in the valley of despair.

I say to you today, my friends, that in spite of the difficulties and frustrations of the moment, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the guide maker's dream.

I have a dream that one day this website will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all forum posters are created equal."

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former guide makers and the sons of trolls will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a desert state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

I have a dream that my four children will one day live to use a website where they will not be judged by the type of poster they are, but by the content of their character.

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day the trouble maker in question, whose governor's lips are presently dripping with the words of interposition and nullification, will be transformed into a situation where little troll boys and little posters will be able to join hands with little moderators and little lurkers. Walking together as sisters and brothers.

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Aion shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together.

This is our hope. This is the faith with which I return to the South. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to make guides together, to play Aion together, to pvp together, to go get banned together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.

This will be the day when all of Aion's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, "My website, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my friends died, land of the legion's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring."

And if AionSource is to be a great website this must become true. So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania!

Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado!

Let freedom ring from the curvaceous peaks of California!

But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia!

Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee!

Let freedom ring from every hill and every molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring.

When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every website and every forum, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of Aion's children: Lurkers, Trolls, Forum Posters, Moderators, Cynic, Ayase, and New Posters; will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old guide maker spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank Aion Almighty, we are free at last!"

[justamemory]

I hereby confer Bumpitus Maximus!

[Keeg]

(pulls up a chair and proceeds in a peaceful protest)

[raving]

everyone should be able to freely post their creativity and/or guides to help people without being blasted by forum trolls......even i troll the forums but you will never catch me going into a thread just to put down the op or anything

[Hubris]

And you say I rant Keeg, good game sir, good game.

[Keeg]

Originally Posted by Hubris

And you say I rant Keeg, good game sir, good game.

Thank you father Hubris.

Edit: for those of you still tuned in
link: A beginners guide to leveling your gear

The act of injustice continues as I post. Speak you mind my brothers and sisters. Whether you agree with me or not is irrelevant. Make your voices heard!

[Hubris]

As long as the WORD is spread. who really cares.