Building a new PC

Ankh · 07-08-2009, 06:36 AM

Hi everyone,

Some years ago I was buying new equipment every half year to every year, getting mostly some stuff which could be easily be upgraded in the next season. But some time ago, probably 2 to 3 years ago I stopped doing that and haven't bought anything since then. My core2duo seems rather outdated by now and I think I should get some new fancy stuff by now - not only for Aion, but in general. But I have some issues with custumizing a fine machine.

As I'm running a nearly silent machine right now, I want to have something similar again. Also most equipment should be replaceable without getting everything new. The stuff I think I will buy would be:

Mainboard: Asus P6T SE
CPU: Intel Core i7-920 Prozessor
CPU fan: NesteQ SilentFreezer1200
RAM: G.Skill DIMM 6 GB DDR3-1333 Tri-Kit (7-7-7-18)
PSU: Zalman ZM600-HP
GPU: GigaByte GV-N98TSL-1GI (GeForce 9800GT passive cooling)
HDD: Western Digital WD6401AALS 640 GB Caviar Black
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-D162D
Case: Antec 300 (with 2-3x Tacens Ventus 12cm)
OS: Windows Vista Home Premium 64Bit (including coupon for Windows 7)

Price: €930 (excluding OS)

Do you think this will last some time? Is the i7 okay or is the core2quad more suitable?

Thanks in advance!
Ankh

Veni Vidi Vici · 07-08-2009, 06:44 AM

Don't get vista and use the win 7 RC client till release.

Price? Seems like a solid build anyways. Can't go wrong with a 920.

Ankh · 07-08-2009, 06:45 AM

About €990. Vista comes with a coupon for Windows 7 Final these days (at least in Germany), so I'll get it anyways. But I'll try the RC.

GrimFox · 07-08-2009, 06:49 AM

i7 will last longer c2d certainly wouldn't be a bad upgrade either. depending on what you're running now. You wont need SLI on a DX11 card unless you're getting a cheapo 50-100 version, which they usually don't release first, so you'd end up waiting longer. Also to note new cards are frequently not very quiet the reference cooler is usually optimized for airflow not a good balance of the two. That said it's possible these chips will run cooler because of the smaller process. Otherwise the build looks good.

Ankh · 07-08-2009, 06:54 AM

Thanks for the input.

cyberhedz · 07-08-2009, 06:57 AM

sounds nice, as a somewhat AMD fanboy, I hate to say I need an upgrade and will be all over the i7 once i have enough bank for a full new system. I'm still running the kick *** athlon 64 x2 that was released in 07, 3.2 per core, its nice but its a whole new world of gaming these days.

Ankh · 07-08-2009, 08:10 AM

Okay, I have another question. The build above sounds really good to me, but I was wondering if I could get something similar for a little less money. Actually money won't be an issue, but I dislike to burn money. :P

Here is build from above again:

Mainboard: Asus P6T SE
CPU: Intel Core i7-920 Prozessor boxed
RAM: Corsair DIMM 6 GB DDR3-1600 Tri-Kit
Power Supply: Corsair CMPSU-620HX
GPU: Asus 9400 GT PCIe SILENT/HTP/512M (will be replaced by a silent DX11 once it's available)
HDD: Western Digital WD6401AALS 640 GB Caviar Black
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-D162D
OS: Windows Vista Home Premium 64Bit (including coupon for Windows 7)
Case: Sharkoon Rebel9 Economy-Edition with 2x Scythe SFlex 800rpm

Price: euro 935

--------------------------------

The "low budget equivalent":

Mainboard: Asus M4A78T-E
CPU: AMD Phenom II X3 720 boxed
RAM Corsair DIMM 4 GB DDR3-1333 Kit
Power Supply: Corsair CMPSU-520HX
GPU: Asus 8600 GT PCIe SILENT/HTP/512M (my old one, will be replaced by a silent DX11 once it's available)
HDD: Western Digital WD6401AALS 640 GB Caviar Black
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-D162D
OS: Windows Vista Home Premium 64Bit (including coupon for Windows 7)
Case: Sharkoon Rebel9 Economy-Edition with 2x Scythe SFlex 800rpm

Price: euro 598

I'm not into OC'ing at all. I know that's easier now than in the old days and the safety margin is a lot bigger these days, but I think both system are sufficient the way they are bought. I heard that it can be possible to have a 4th working core on the X3, that would be the only thing I would try.

Some questions:

1. The memory clock/controller (don't know what it's called in english) of the i7 is set to either 800 or 1066. So would I need to OC this one to use the full potential of the 1600 MHz. Would be a 6gb Tri-Kit from Kingston with 1066 MHz okay or will there be significant gain in speed using 1600MHz over 1066MHz RAM?

2. The difference for gaming between both CPUs should be marginal. As I'm mostly into games the second machine is totally fine, isn't it?

3. Would be a X2 550 with 2x 3.1 GHz be better than the X3 with 3x 2.8 GHz in terms of gaming?

Any other input is appreciated.

GrimFox · 07-09-2009, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ankh

Okay, I have another question. The build above sounds really good to me, but I was wondering if I could get something similar for a little less money. Actually money won't be an issue, but I dislike to burn money. :P

Here is build from above again:

Mainboard: Asus P6T SE
CPU: Intel Core i7-920 Prozessor boxed
RAM: Corsair DIMM 6 GB DDR3-1600 Tri-Kit
Power Supply: Corsair CMPSU-620HX
GPU: Asus 9400 GT PCIe SILENT/HTP/512M (will be replaced by a silent DX11 once it's available)
HDD: Western Digital WD6401AALS 640 GB Caviar Black
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-D162D
OS: Windows Vista Home Premium 64Bit (including coupon for Windows 7)
Case: Sharkoon Rebel9 Economy-Edition with 2x Scythe SFlex 800rpm

Price: euro 935

--------------------------------

The "low budget equivalent":

Mainboard: Asus M4A78T-E
CPU: AMD Phenom II X3 720 boxed
RAM Corsair DIMM 4 GB DDR3-1333 Kit
Power Supply: Corsair CMPSU-520HX
GPU: Asus 8600 GT PCIe SILENT/HTP/512M (my old one, will be replaced by a silent DX11 once it's available)
HDD: Western Digital WD6401AALS 640 GB Caviar Black
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-D162D
OS: Windows Vista Home Premium 64Bit (including coupon for Windows 7)
Case: Sharkoon Rebel9 Economy-Edition with 2x Scythe SFlex 800rpm

Price: euro 598

I'm not into OC'ing at all. I know that's easier now than in the old days and the safety margin is a lot bigger these days, but I think both system are sufficient the way they are bought. I heard that it can be possible to have a 4th working core on the X3, that would be the only thing I would try.

Unlocking the 4th core will increase your heat production and may be unstable, basically X3 720 chips have a core locked because it was found to be of inferior quality. sometimes the errors in the core are small, runs a little looser than the other 3 cores or it could be that a whole portion of that core is missing or damaged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ankh

Some questions:

1. The memory clock/controller (don't know what it's called in english) of the i7 is set to either 800 or 1066. So would I need to OC this one to use the full potential of the 1600 MHz. Would be a 6gb Tri-Kit from Kingston with 1066 MHz okay or will there be significant gain in speed using 1600MHz over 1066MHz RAM?

like it says unless you OC the CPU the difference between 1066 and 1600 is moot. I've seen some 1066 ram with tighter timings than the 1600 stuff so if you plan to OC you should look into 1600 if you don't, don't bother. Overall i think improvements will be generally slim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ankh

2. The difference for gaming between both CPUs should be marginal. As I'm mostly into games the second machine is totally fine, isn't it?

yeah the second machine is fine. for gaming 3 cores is plenty as most games will only run on two anyway leaving the third core to run apps the forth core is gravy, or icing whichever you prefer. The i7 will be faster, things that are processing intensive like RTS games may benefit more from an I7 than a X3. I can't say for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ankh

3. Would be a X2 550 with 2x 3.1 GHz be better than the X3 with 3x 2.8 GHz in terms of gaming?

Any other input is appreciated.

well the clock speed is faster but the 3rd core makes up quite a bit more difference. If you want to save some money and stay on the ground floor of the AM3 platform and upgrade when better chips come out the X2 is by no means a bad idea. It'll do everything you need. I think the X3 is really the butterzone for gaming at the moment, for reasons mentioned above. It's cheap but still capable of the more intense processing. If you feel like your being ripped off because of the clock speed you can activate the 4th core or leave it off and just up the clock speed. Getting to 3.1 on stock cooling should not be much of a hassle.

both builds are really great and should be everything you want no matter which combination you go with.

Vinak · 07-09-2009, 02:37 PM

get OCZ RAM. cheaper (in the states at least), and with better clock timings.

Kaiyoko-Desu · 07-09-2009, 03:10 PM

I noticed something:

Why use a weak GPU, esp on a new build? I understand the want to wait for DX11 cards, but that's not for a bit. Also, you can buy a pretty good after market GPU heatsink and slap it onto a new card (4850/4870 and even 4890's now for ATI, or any nVidia card sans maybe the GTX 2xx series?) if you need something quieter.

Edit: What Core2Duo (or Quad) do you have? Core2's are not slouches despite their age =P

JonKo · 07-10-2009, 02:09 AM

You might want to look away from waiting for a Directx11 card if you're intending to play high-end games, because

A. Most games won't be optimized for Directx11 until the time comes when you're probably already up for your next upgrade (giving that you go back to your old habit of buying equipment frequently).

B. When the Directx11 cards come out, I'm somewhat certain that they won't be as silent as you might expect them to be. Not the reference cooler ones anyway. It will most likely take some time for companies such as MSI, Asus and Sapphire to come up with their "own" design and coolers (mostly re-branded aftermarket ones).

Then again, it's your PC and not mine, so you're entitled to waiting, of course.

You're searching for a platform that has some future potential upgrade paths, correct?
That narrows it down to the AM3 socket for AMD and the LGA 1366 (and soon, LGA 1156) sockets for Intel.
Currently, there are only quad cores available for the 1366 socket, so if you want to save on price and get a dual- or triple core processor you can only go for AMD for the time being.

I guess it would be more useful for you to go with the best of AM3 rather than the worst (which is still very good) of 1366. That P6T "Special Edition" is really a nerfed edition of the original board...which is fine, really. Just know that it only supports crossfire, which seems kind of weird since you seem to prefer Nvidia cards (this is a non-issue if you don't care about SLI, but additional features on the motherboard are downgraded as well, when it has a higher price than Asus' high end AM3 motherboard: The Crosshair III formula or the M4A79T Deluxe)

About the videocard, if you want an affordable, reliable and really silent graphics card that can max out Aion I would look into Sapphire's HD 4890 Vapor-X and Toxic editions. This is really the most important part of a gaming computer, so I would urge you to pay extra care to this, good luck with it!

Ankh · 07-10-2009, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinak

get OCZ RAM. cheaper (in the states at least), and with better clock timings.

I thought to get some G. Skill RAM (don't know if that's a good brand, though) with 7-7-7-18 timing at 1333 MHz. It's very cheap too, cheaper than OCZ and better timings. Otherwise I thought about getting Kingston ValueRAM with a timing of 7-7-7 at 1066 MHz (the only DDR3 with 1066 MHz I found...), as I actually didn't want to OC or if I have to as few as possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiyoko-Desu

I noticed something:

Why use a weak GPU, esp on a new build? I understand the want to wait for DX11 cards, but that's not for a bit. Also, you can buy a pretty good after market GPU heatsink and slap it onto a new card (4850/4870 and even 4890's now for ATI, or any nVidia card sans maybe the GTX 2xx series?) if you need something quieter.

Edit: What Core2Duo (or Quad) do you have? Core2's are not slouches despite their age =P

This month a Asus 9600 GT silent should be released for a fairly low price which I might get. Even though I could get GPU heatsink and put it on a new card I doubt that the cooling will be fairly good. As well as getting a new card for some hundreds of euro and a heatsink just to replace it within the next few months is what I would call burning money.

Right now I'm having a core2duo with 2GHz and 2gb RAM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonKo

You might want to look away from waiting for a Directx11 card if you're intending to play high-end games, because

That might be a problem, but I'm not into high-end games as those are most of the time FPS games which I don't like at all. Quake and CS was fun for some time, but I'm too old by now :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonKo

You're searching for a platform that has some future potential upgrade paths, correct?
That narrows it down to the AM3 socket for AMD and the LGA 1366 (and soon, LGA 1156) sockets for Intel.
Currently, there are only quad cores available for the 1366 socket, so if you want to save on price and get a dual- or triple core processor you can only go for AMD for the time being.

I guess it would be more useful for you to go with the best of AM3 rather than the worst (which is still very good) of 1366. That P6T "Special Edition" is really a nerfed edition of the original board...which is fine, really.

Yes, I want something with some future potential upgrade paths. Normally I would get the 1366 socket as I have always bought Intel CPUs (for some reason I always buy them, I don't have anything against AMD at all), but the price for the CPU and Mainboard seems unreasonable high compared to the AM3.

I chose the P6T SE as I probably won't use SLI (or Crossfire) at all and I don't care that there is no 3rd SATA controller and SATAII-RAID, I usually have only 1-2 HDDs and one optical drive. Everything else seems to be the same compared to the standard P6T.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonKo

Just know that it only supports crossfire, which seems kind of weird since you seem to prefer Nvidia cards (this is a non-issue if you don't care about SLI, but additional features on the motherboard are downgraded as well, when it has a higher price than Asus' high end AM3 motherboard: The Crosshair III formula or the M4A79T Deluxe)

About the videocard, if you want an affordable, reliable and really silent graphics card that can max out Aion I would look into Sapphire's HD 4890 Vapor-X and Toxic editions. This is really the most important part of a gaming computer, so I would urge you to pay extra care to this, good luck with it!

I thought about getting some silent ATI GPU but then again, everytime someone had issues related to the GPU it was always because of an ATI, mainly software issues. Maybe that's wrong by now, but that's always on my mind... Also the Vapor-X and Toxic seem to have a fan, it might be silent, but passive cooling is what I would look for. But if there are some truely silent ATI GPUs I might consider them. :)

Maybe I should also mention that I'm using two 24" LCDs with a resolution of 1920*1200 each.

JonKo · 07-10-2009, 05:47 AM

Thanks for your reply.

I'm wondering, if you're not interested in high-end games, why are you interested in a dx11 card?

I agree with the price to performance ratio of AM3 vs 1366. However if you do decide to go for the i7 platform, I hope you look into some performance measurements of the P6T SE. I personally have some doubts about that board, but I have doubts about any "special budget edition" hardware item. Granted, I haven't looked into my suspicions yet, so for now, they remain unfounded. A factor you might want to take into consideration is audio performance. Is this important to you? Perhaps the audio chip is different from the other P6T's, that is, if you're planning on using on-board audio.

I can personally vouch for the silence of the Vapor-X technology of Sapphire. I believe they used some sort of phase shift technology (there's actually some liquid in the card to keep it cool somehow). I'm not here to reassure you. Just letting you know that I have the Toxic one overclocked at 1 ghz, and I can't hear it, ordered a second one that will go in Crossfire that should be coming next week. Didn't have any problems with ATI's drivers either, heck, even my notebook with ****** integrated ATI Xpress chipset can run Aion pretty decently somehow (my full specs are in the is your rig ready thread).

I'm sorry, but I can't help you with any passively cooled GPUs, simply because I do not know any.

Oh and BTW, G-Skill is good. OCZ is good too and so is Corsair. To me it just comes down to reliability and Corsair's customer service (asktheramguy!) excels at that point (RMA and technical support). That's why I chose Corsair myself, but G-Skill's great too.

As a final notice I want to reiterate the GPU factor. Gaming seems to be one of the most important factors of the decision-making process of this PC build. If so, I'd recommend you a graphics card that's stronger than a 9600 GT. If you don't, you will cause a severe bottleneck in your system. By simply upgrading the GPU, perhaps at the cost of some other hardware components that aren't necessary, you will gain so much more real-world performance (ingame, that is) than by upgrading all other components and leaving a severe GPU bottleneck.

Hope I have been of assistance & sorry for the ambiguous post.

Btw, no matter what speeds your ram is able to run at, by default it will function just fine at JEDEC speeds. So you'll never be forced to overclock to make it work. With XMP profiles on, you barely even notice you're overclocking XD.

Edit:

Since you're from Germany I've taken the liberty to go on a German hardware site to find some passively cooled graphics cards. I think either of these cards will be able to play Aion just fine until you find your upgrade (not sure if it's needed after getting for example a 4850, which is already a lot better than what we started out with)

ATI
http://www.alternate.de/html/product...=Radeon+HD4000

http://www.alternate.de/html/product...=Radeon+HD4000

NVIDIA
http://www.alternate.de/html/product...A&l3=GeForce+9

http://www.alternate.de/html/product...A&l3=GeForce+9

Hope this helps

Edit 2:

Hmm, with two 24" Screens it'll be hard to play games at max res using passively cooled cards, I think. Are you using Matrox DualHeadToGo or are you using one to play and the other for other stuff?

Ankh · 07-10-2009, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonKo

Thanks for your reply.

I'm wondering, if you're not interested in high-end games, why are you interested in a dx11 card?

Well right now most of the high-end games release are FPS, hopefully that will change and hopefully they will support dx11. So it is an option for the future. :)

Quote: