on gameguard, drm and botting.

[Dimon]

/signed

Game Guard is stupid, but cba staying away from the game so I'll have to live with it.

[TOloseGT]

NCSoft is a cheap company, can't fight against that.

[Silverveign]

Originally Posted by TOloseGT

NCSoft is a cheap company, can't fight against that.

If money talks then they should realize they are going to lose subs due to GG. Sure the folks here in the forum are a small percentage of the gamers, but if this many people here are having issues I am sure others are too.

Do you really think that Joe Blow the regular NA gamer is going to screw with GG for long? Probably not, and his sub money will be long gone.

How many subs would it take for NCsoft to pay attention to this? A few hundred, a few thousand? At what point over the next few years will someone with some authority at NCwest look at the numbers and go, "Wow, subs are down and the comments left as the 1-3 month subs closed their accounts are usually "#$%^ gameguard". I wonder if we should remove GG?"

With WoW (which is still terrible) being the juggernaut that it is, and SW: TOR and the new Final Fantasy game coming out the competition for the MMO market is going to be pretty brutal. Bear in mind that just because you do not care for any of these games does not mean the bulk of the NA gamers will share your views. If Aion wants to survive they need to remove GG. As it stands now it's a strong reason not to play this game and with the competition being so steep it's something NCsoft can't afford.

[Zorb]

Originally Posted by Silverveign

If money talks then they should realize they are going to lose subs due to GG. Sure the folks here in the forum are a small percentage of the gamers, but if this many people here are having issues I am sure others are too.

Do you really think that Joe Blow the regular NA gamer is going to screw with GG for long? Probably not, and his sub money will be long gone.

How many subs would it take for NCsoft to pay attention to this? A few hundred, a few thousand? At what point over the next few years will someone with some authority at NCwest look at the numbers and go, "Wow, subs are down and the comments left as the 1-3 month subs closed their accounts are usually "#$%^ gameguard". I wonder if we should remove GG?"

With WoW (which is still terrible) being the juggernaut that it is, and SW: TOR and the new Final Fantasy game coming out the competition for the MMO market is going to be pretty brutal. Bear in mind that just because you do not care for any of these games does not mean the bulk of the NA gamers will share your views. If Aion wants to survive they need to remove GG. As it stands now it's a strong reason not to play this game and with the competition being so steep it's something NCsoft can't afford.

at least they should warn the gereral public that the product contains gameguard and let the public decide if they want to purchase that product along with aion because in effect, thats exactly what you are doing.

[Silverveign]

Originally Posted by Zorb

at least they should warn the gereral public that the product contains gameguard and let the public decide if they want to purchase that product along with aion because in effect, thats exactly what you are doing.

The warning on the box would be akin to the warning on a pack of cigars.

Warning: Installing Aion will also install the root kit Gameguard. This product will invade your system and while gameguard is active you will be unable to run most common gaming keyboards and mice, as well as most security products. Use of Gameguard could also lead to what seems like random process closures and the inability to use a long list of programs.

[Liseda]

Originally Posted by Silverveign

The warning on the box would be akin to the warning on a pack of cigars.

Warning: Installing Aion will also install the root kit Gameguard. This product will invade your system and while gameguard is active you will be unable to run most common gaming keyboards and mice, as well as most security products. Use of Gameguard could also lead to what seems like random process closures and the inability to use a long list of programs.

Perfect !

[Zorb]

Originally Posted by Silverveign

The warning on the box would be akin to the warning on a pack of cigars.

Warning: Installing Aion will also install the root kit Gameguard. This product will invade your system and while gameguard is active you will be unable to run most common gaming keyboards and mice, as well as most security products. Use of Gameguard could also lead to what seems like random process closures and the inability to use a long list of programs.

lol...i'm waiting for the first time aion customer service reps tell people, 'its a gameguard problem, call them'...LOL

[phluke]

/Signed

-Harms game performance by eating resources
-Causes crashes
-Its a rootkit
-Disables GAMING keyboards and mice software.
-Doesn't stop hackers
-Costs NCsoft $$

So whats the plus side?

[iamlegion]

Originally Posted by Linren

If some of these people that vote for Gameguard to be removed all together, I would like to see them offer actual solutions.

Are you going to make a free security program better than GG and give it to NCsoft for free? If so, then I bet they are willing.

Are you going to pay for the cost to remove GG from their games and also pay the settlement fee for NCsoft? I am sure they would be delighted to do it if that was the case.

Even if NCsoft just decide to not use any security software, Aion will turn into a cheat fest filled with bots and hacks even more.

Even if a new security software is installed, people will still attempt to circumvent it, which make this whole thing again pointless except NCsoft would have spent a lot more money just to end up with the same problems.

Lets not forget an independent / commercial software are still largely excluded by other software such as Anti-virus detection list, so now you end up with another GG under a different name and maybe slightly different programming.

I do agree maybe GG should be removed if they can't solve its issues, but at the same time, I see nothing constructive going on. I know I can't offer them a very good solution nor come up with a half-decent one, which is why I simply wait and see.

I did offer solutions.
There isnt really any need for a security program. As long as people report botters they will get caught.
The thing is there is no solution as the botters will go around any and all security programs they use that's just how simple it is. The problem wont go away and using a prog like gg is like just trying to hide from the problem instead and just beliving the problem isnt really there.

Originally Posted by phluke

/Signed

-Harms game performance by eating resources
-Causes crashes
-Its a rootkit
-Disables GAMING keyboards and mice software.
-Doesn't stop hackers
-Costs NCsoft $$

So whats the plus side?

None

[Frode789]

Originally Posted by phluke

/Signed

-Harms game performance by eating resources
-Causes crashes
-Its a rootkit
-Disables GAMING keyboards and mice software.
-Doesn't stop hackers
-Costs NCsoft $$

So whats the plus side?

The ONLY possible reason would be that they nProtect signed ONE HELL OF A MASSIVE deal with NSCoft, which is worth a lot of money to NCSoft. Only possible reason.. (translation: Bribe)

[Livvy]

Originally Posted by kvinna

Please do not post ways to disable Gameguard.

My guess is NCsoft is starting to give you guys a hard time about this .Also considering this post over at betaboards by Ayase:

8. Do not post petitions or threads/polls that have this purpose. If there is a major issue, we are most likely aware of it and are doing what we can to sort it out.

about all gameguard issues.If Aion launches with this piece of software attached to it I will disable it .If I fail to do so I will uninstall the game and remove the rootkit .

[Gorubee]

Originally Posted by Linren

If some of these people that vote for Gameguard to be removed all together, I would like to see them offer actual solutions.

Are you going to make a free security program better than GG and give it to NCsoft for free? If so, then I bet they are willing.

Are you going to pay for the cost to remove GG from their games and also pay the settlement fee for NCsoft? I am sure they would be delighted to do it if that was the case.

Even if NCsoft just decide to not use any security software, Aion will turn into a cheat fest filled with bots and hacks even more.

Even if a new security software is installed, people will still attempt to circumvent it, which make this whole thing again pointless except NCsoft would have spent a lot more money just to end up with the same problems.

Lets not forget an independent / commercial software are still largely excluded by other software such as Anti-virus detection list, so now you end up with another GG under a different name and maybe slightly different programming.

I do agree maybe GG should be removed if they can't solve its issues, but at the same time, I see nothing constructive going on. I know I can't offer them a very good solution nor come up with a half-decent one, which is why I simply wait and see.

Your post is full of self-contradiction and paradox in a multitude of main points.

Suppose GameGuard is ineffective at stopping bots, hacks, and cheats. This fact has been made self-evident by many before me, so I will not waste precious time and text proving this statement.

So, your main arguments are as follows:

1)If Aion has no security software, then Aion will turn into a cheatfest filled with bots and hacks.

2)If players with to see GameGuard removed, then they should be constructive and provide alternatives.

3)If new (i.e. alternative) security software is installed, then users will circumvent it and cheat anyway.

4)If players wish to see GameGuard removed, then they should pay the settlement for NCSoft to have it removed.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Now, step-by-step, we observe what is incorrect with these statements:

1) is inherently reliant on the assumption that security is adequately effective at stopping cheats and hacks. So, the assumed logical thought would be:

If security software is installed, then cheaters will be stopped.

However, statement 3) states that 'If new security software is installed, then cheaters will circumvent it'; and it is already supposed that GameGuard is ineffective. If GG doesn't stop hackers, and alternative security software doesn't stop hackers, then why should we propose alternate security systems for Aion that won't work at all? Points 2 and 3 cannot exist simultaneously, nor can points 1 and 3. So you can either say that security software will make no difference (!1) and therefore players shouldn't need to provide it (!2) and that hackers will circumvent it and make it pointless anyway (3), or you can say that security software DOES make a difference and that players should provide an alternate one, because there exists anti-cheat software that hackers can't circumvent and make pointless. (1 & 2 & !3)

Now, regarding 4), I will simply state that NCSoft is a company. The product is their responsibility, not ours. If NCSoft makes a poor decision for their product, then they should take responsibility for it and take the losses for reverting that decision; or keep the decision and accept the losses from that. The players -already- pay NCSoft for providing a good product, this is represented by the subscription fee we give them as a service provider. If NCSoft receives a significant increase in prospective subscribers in return for removing GameGuard, then have the players not effectively covered the expenses for them, and moreso, craeated a long-term profit in return for short-term loss? If a group of potential consumers are willing to take the loss FOR NCsoft, then all the more power to them - but this is an exception, not the rule.

We already pay NCSoft to settle the removal of GameGuard from their program; we do it with our subscription fees. I don't know how the economic system works over in Korea where the game comes from, but regardless of semantics, over in the US* (And undoubtedly a number of other Western countries that NC-West is serving, like our EU and I would presume Canadian cousins), the private company is responsible for satisfying the consumer in order to stay afloat, not the other way around.

[Deonzir]

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Theer is a thread like this, where more than 4/5 of people want GG to be removed.

Frankly, I'm considering disabling that piece of crap. I get 30% more FPS and that's on Maximum settings. Before, in CB, I disabled the GG because it crashed with blue screen of death on Windows 7 and I couldn't play otherwise.

Waitaminute...are you saying I don't HAVE to use it? I thought I did....can I uninstall it and still play Aion?

[Torinir]

Originally Posted by Gorubee

Wall of Text snipped

Post of the Year.

[Abedeus]

Originally Posted by Deonzir

Waitaminute...are you saying I don't HAVE to use it? I thought I did....can I uninstall it and still play Aion?

Well, you can disable it. We can't really tell you how, where and from whom, but just wiki it. Seriously, GameGuard's wiki page has at least 2 links where there are ways to disable the GG.

And this is kinda stupid, since Wikipedia isn't really a good place to look for hacks... What if a real cheater finds an even better way to not disable GG, but simply outsma...

Oh, it has already happened. Nevermind then.