Pvp Templars taunting other players to attack u.

[BahamutKaiser]

I think the idea that an Assassin (of all things) is going to choose to attack a well defended target instead of the neccessary target because you called him names. Most of these taunt systems don't even force the foe to attack you, and almost never cause them to use their skills, so I fail to see where this is very effective. Most importantly, in PvP your fighting party to party, and unless your entire team is templar, your likely only able to taunt one foe. A group taunt would be feasible, but theres bound to be a way around that, like attacking in waves, where a group of foes will assail on an allie, which you can't defend.

I believe the idea about intervening is pretty straight forward, you intercept attacks directed at an ally, perhaps by standing beside him and activating intercept skills. These could allow you to block attacks at yourself, canceling them, gaining magic from spells, or counterattacking, and also counteract attacks directed at the adjacent ally if your beside them and facing the direction of the attack. This would provide the level of defensive measure and tactic which would ensure attacks directed souly at an ally assuredly hit you instead, or a canceled all together by your ability. It's none too different than the effect of Reversal of Fortune used by Monks in GuildWars, except your offering direct defensive measures to your allies by being nearby.

That is the kind of defense which will allow Templar to instill his defensive value without some sort of squishy agro mechanic with holes all over it, and halmark the kind of proactive, reactive combat Ken Choi claimed.

[Zaksin]

Yes Intervene is good and all it would make a tank call more wanted in a PVP party.

What I'm saying is that Taunts should be in PVP. The tank taunts the target, the target is forced to attack him for like....say 3 seconds and can resume to beat on the person he was previously attacking...I'm not saying tanks should be able to spam taunt so no one can target anything. Cooldowns would be the time the enemy would have to attack, and in regards to that party of templars... AoE taunts are quite a nice thing.

There is a balance to this, I'm pretty sure Templars don't have infinite power/mana to taunt infinitely and do sufficient damage.

There is a defensive value in taunts... you attract the enemy to your wall rather than that crack that is barely held together by gum and sticks... =p

I would like to take this time to Damn SoE for Fubar'ing the PVP system in EQ2....that is all...

[BahamutKaiser]

The whole concept of taunts subtracts from the combat emersion, it's a flawed concept designed out of early gameplay limitation, something that should be forgotten altogether. Since they will be in the game, yeah, I imagine that's a neccessity, though I think it would be even better if it just made all of the foes abilities miss, fail or reduce greatly in effectiveness when aimed at one other than that who placed a taunt on you, like whoever said.

[Ayron]

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

The whole concept of taunts subtracts from the combat emersion, it's a flawed concept designed out of early gameplay limitation, something that should be forgotten altogether. Since they will be in the game, yeah, I imagine that's a neccessity, though I think it would be even better if it just made all of the foes abilities miss, fail or reduce greatly in effectiveness when aimed at one other than that who placed a taunt on you, like whoever said.

I don't think taunts are a flawed concept; the tank has to have ways to hold agro, and they don't do that with damage. Inherently some of their skills will have to be used to get enemies to attack them. Are you saying they are flawed to work in PvP solely?

[Terpsichore]

As long as they live the same as in l2, im good.

[BahamutKaiser]

Think harder Ayron, how do you defend someone in real life, and how does a taunt work vs a centient foe? Either way, it is flawed, the Taunt is either going to do little other than detour one foe momentarily, which will not overcome powerful assaults or effective tactics, because any good player is going to break a targetting trick instantly, or refrain from wasting attacks which will not be effective. Otherwise your totally relieving a foe of control over their character, which is entirely overpowered, you could easily taunt the weakest foe you can reach and force them to aproach you and start attacking, basically giving themselves away, that kind of entrappment is broken.

It is a design weakness stressed by early MMO gameplay because they weren't creative enough to design defensive imitations, or just couldn't process interactive defense. With modern technology, it is more than easy to immitate defensive techniques, and ten times more tactical for nearly every aspect of the game when realistic tactics are introduced to a combat situation.

When you make realistic solutions to combat mechanics, the depth and emersion of combat, as well as the tactical variation leap up. It is really just a matter of creativity and breaking away from engrained concepts of gameplay breed by abstract fantasies.

[Ayron]

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

Think harder Ayron, how do you defend someone in real life, and how does a taunt work vs a centient foe? Either way, it is flawed, the Taunt is either going to do little other than detour one foe momentarily, which will not overcome powerful assaults or effective tactics, because any good player is going to break a targetting trick instantly, or refrain from wasting attacks which will not be effective. Otherwise your totally relieving a foe of control over their character, which is entirely overpowered, you could easily taunt the weakest foe you can reach and force them to aproach you and start attacking, basically giving themselves away, that kind of entrappment is broken.

It is a design weakness stressed by early MMO gameplay because they weren't creative enough to design defensive imitations, or just couldn't process interactive defense. With modern technology, it is more than easy to immitate defensive techniques, and ten times more tactical for nearly every aspect of the game when realistic tactics are introduced to a combat situation.

When you make realistic solutions to combat mechanics, the depth and emersion of combat, as well as the tactical variation leap up. It is really just a matter of creativity and breaking away from engrained concepts of gameplay breed by abstract fantasies.

Hmm, interesting. It would be interesting to try other methods which were more realistic. Those ideas are vastly different from any mmo's, but it would be fun to try a new way of tanking. Too late for Aion though, and it would definitely take a while to implement.

[Zaksin]

My ideas are old I know, and unfortunately Aion is based on a threat based system like most if not all MMOs are on right now. My view on PVP taunting is IMO the best way to handle it. If I would change things it would be more of a reactive system where you parry as a user reaction not a random number within' the program. Hell, I'd love to jump in front of my allies and take the hits, if not at least like 65% of the hits at least... but I believe Aion is threat based and we've gotta deal.

Yes the idea of taunting IRL is kind of stupid... If I were the assassin I would kill the healer as I say "Oh Ho, you're next."

[BahamutKaiser]

With a system like Aion, it would have to be a shared function, they obviously already have Taunting and Agro in the game, but deligating some defensive moves which are direct and interactive would still landmark Aion as an innovation in combat gameplay.

The sad thing is, this isn't some new fangled gameplay mech, there have been plenty of games with Damage reversal, single or limited strike blocking, and party damage reduction, they are just limited to support spell casters rather than the tank, and not used with proximity. It probably woln't even be the first time in a game, it just hasn't been done well enough to replace the known mechanic.

In Guild Wars there are monk spells which reverse the next attack to heal your ally, or reduce the damage and return it equally at your foe. There are also protection spells which divide have the damage to the support caster, reduce the maximum damage to a limited amount per second, cut all damage to no more than 10% of the allies health, provide 50% block rate, and a vasad of other traits, the real issues is delegating the many protective measures to a physical proximity support role rather than placing all protective support measures to a caster class and spells.

The sad thing is most great concepts can be reverse engineered out of existing gameplay concepts, I've design acclaimed gameplay mechanics for entire games, and rarely had to develop a concept from scratch, it just takes a good education in industry progression and a grasp beyond directly experiencing a system. The thing that saddens me the most is when a particular developer fails to reinvent their own discoveries featured in other games they made themselves when making a new game... Its rather pathetic.

As for how Aion is "suppose" to work, I just took Ken Choi word on it, that it is intended to be proactive and reactive. I think it was this interview, but I might have the wrong one. They may not have reached these conclusions yet, but reguardless, they should try to innovate what they claimed into the game.

Gametrailers.com - Aion - Interview with Ken Choi by Hellriser

[Zaksin]

Your ideas are good, but we'll just have to wait and see what the Almighty Aion Developers have in store for us. The combat looks amazing in the videos let's just hope the mechanics are just as amazing.

I enjoy controlling the battle PVP or PVE... just my 2 Qina.

As for how Aion is "suppose" to work, I just took Ken Choi word on it, that it is intended to be "Proactive and Reactive". Right out of the interview here. They may not have reached these conclusions yet, but reguardless, they should try to innovate what they claimed into the game.

Gametrailers.com - Aion - Interview with Ken Choi by Hellriser
__________________

Yeah... unfortunately I've seen many MMO's claim to have that... back when EQ2 was coming out the developers said that, World of Warcraft "has" that (and by has that I mean if you parry randomly you can do an extra 25 damage ) So like i've said, we'll wait and see or manage to get into Beta Session 3 (I'm hoping thats when they'll start us English Speakers off) .

[Ashes]

I would prefer a "Cover" style ability to take the hits directed at someone else.

[BahamutKaiser]

Same thing Ashes.

[Kevall]

Yar cover would be nice. 5 seconds active; 1 minute recast or so! All this speculation sucks in the end though... just have to wait, see, and hope for the best~

[Ashes]

Originally Posted by Kevall

Yar cover would be nice. 5 seconds active; 1 minute recast or so! All this speculation sucks in the end though... just have to wait, see, and hope for the best~

One minute cooldown would be silly. It's not like he's negating the damage. He's just taking it himself.

[Kevall]

Originally Posted by Ashes

One minute cooldown would be silly. It's not like he's negating the damage. He's just taking it himself.

By all means kind sir; more detail as to how you believe a cover ability should be implemented. Do you mean that one should be able to totally immobilize an enemy as long as said player can be kept alive or would 1 minute just be too long of a cooldown?

For the record; I personally will be playing Aion more for the PvE aspect. And I hope they don't shortchange us