Shields and Two handers

[Treta]

Originally Posted by Gravity

If your going to be leveling with a Chanter, 100% use a 2hander! The lack of defense you have will be made up by the Chanter's buffs and heals, so you'll survive just as long (Probably longer!), but you'll do more damage.

Hope I helped. ^-^

Well, that theory depends on the skill levels that we get with the different weapons. I'd probably go with my Chanter casting attack buffs so that the rest of the party could get greater DPS than just myself using a stronger weapon. But once again, that all just depends on how Aion goes about with their skill and battle formulas.

[dalavita]

Originally Posted by Sabre

Because it's nice to have more than just a Sword + Shield combo, I will definitely use a Longsword/Greatsword for soloing and farming, etc, because it's higher DPS when you don't need the extra defense

Let me explain things to you and other "I'll use a 2hander for better DPS." people.

In general, the following is true.

Half the attack speed and twice the damage = twice the attack speed and half the damage in DPS.
(Two-handed sword) versus (One-handed sword) = Same DPS.

The things that matter are mathematical formulas, skills, passives and how they work.

Tanks in L2 don't run around with two-handers to kill things faster, because they actually have one-handed weapon masteries on top of the weapons original DPS being as good as a two-handers, and can use a shield at the same time. Protection warriors in Wow don't run around with a two-hander for better DPS, what they do run around with is dual-wielding because it boosts their rage-generation and gives them a bit of extra damage on the side while their main hand is providing devastate/heroic strike/whirlwind combined with the off hand.

See what's happening here? A bigger weapon does not by default make for better DPS.

The only class in L2 that used a two-hander was the destroyer, why? Because they had two-handed weapon passives, because their skills got additional buffs when used with two-handed weapons and because their attack skills REQUIRED two-handed weapons.

Now, if you're playing a templar, be ready to enjoy your sword+board style of leveling until further and hopefully for you surprising in general MMO-trend skills information is released.

Edit: Just for Sabre!

[Sabre]

Hah! I LOL'd ^^

That's exactly what I was saying, thanks for clearing things up for everyone who hasn't played a single MMO in their life Jedi Master

[dalavita]

Originally Posted by Sabre

Hah! I LOL'd ^^

That's exactly what I was saying, thanks for clearing things up for everyone who hasn't played a single MMO in their life Jedi Master

Because it's nice to have more than just a Sword + Shield combo, I will definitely use a Longsword/Greatsword for soloing and farming, etc, >>>> because it's higher DPS when you don't need the extra defense <<<<

How the hell is that what you were saying, padawan?

Reread, repost, go!

Just for you, I'll mark the points in my post in bold.

[Sabre]

I don't understand, maybe you're just too amazing and logical for me. Don't get too mad there bud.

[Hexxeity]

Originally Posted by dalavita

Let me explain things to you and other "I'll use a 2hander for better DPS." people.

In general, the following is true.

Half the attack speed and twice the damage = twice the attack speed and half the damage in DPS.
(Two-handed sword) versus (One-handed sword) = Same DPS.

The things that matter are mathematical formulas, skills, passives and how they work.

Tanks in L2 don't run around with two-handers to kill things faster, because they actually have one-handed weapon masteries on top of the weapons original DPS being as good as a two-handers, and can use a shield at the same time. Protection warriors in Wow don't run around with a two-hander for better DPS, what they do run around with is dual-wielding because it boosts their rage-generation and gives them a bit of extra damage on the side while their main hand is providing devastate/heroic strike/whirlwind combined with the off hand.

See what's happening here? A bigger weapon does not by default make for better DPS.

The only class in L2 that used a two-hander was the destroyer, why? Because they had two-handed weapon passives, because their skills got additional buffs when used with two-handed weapons and because their attack skills REQUIRED two-handed weapons.

Now, if you're playing a templar, be ready to enjoy your sword+board style of leveling until further and hopefully for you surprising in general MMO-trend skills information is released.

Edit: Just for Sabre!

Umm, when did this become the L2 forum?

Things might work that way in L2, but they certainly DON'T work that way in most MMOs (including WoW). On the contrary, 2-handers usually have significantly higher DPS -- they certainly do in WoW. Yes, I said DPS, not damage per hit.

And those Protection Warriors you mentioned have 1-handed weapon talents, so of COURSE they prefer to dual wield rather than use a 2-hander.

@ OP: When paired with a Chanter, I would think you could choose any style of play you want. The Chanter is one of the more versatile classes and could probably fill in any gaps in your skill set.

[Sabre]

Chanter class will be amazing. So versatile, kinda like the RDM/BRD in FFXI. Not sure what class it fits into best in L2 though dalavita, sorry lol.

I'll just keep looking for dala's BOLD writing

[dalavita]

Originally Posted by Hexxeity

Umm, when did this become the L2 forum?

Things might work that way in L2, but they certainly DON'T work that way in most MMOs (including WoW). On the contrary, 2-handers usually have significantly higher DPS -- they certainly do in WoW. Yes, I said DPS, not damage per hit.

And those Protection Warriors you mentioned have 1-handed weapon talents, so of COURSE they prefer to dual wield rather than use a 2-hander.

@ OP: When paired with a Chanter, I would think you could choose any style of play you want. The Chanter is one of the more versatile classes and could probably fill in any gaps in your skill set.

I wonder if the point of using something as an example escaped you Hexxeity.

L2, Wow, x, z, y, whatever doesn't matter. Math is math and skill mechanics are skill mechanics, and all of them are included into the bigger weapon doesn't necessarily mean better DPS argument.

It's simply speculation since we don't know how the Aion skills and passives will turn out to be, but the same goes to all the "I'll use the two-hander for extra deepeeess!" responses. More than likely the templar wannabees will be gimping themselves wielding a two-hander for DPS. I like the way you put it tho Hexxeity, basically summarized what I said. The templar is a protection warrior, they'll be wanting to use one-handed weapons for damage, just like the tanks of L2.

PS Sabre. A Chanter will be the equivalent of a Warcryer in L2. It looks to be exactly the same thing actually, but who'd figure that to happen with an NCSoft game. Keep reading the bold part and hopefully you'll figure something out soon enough.

[Hexxeity]

Dude, if they wanted to make another Lineage game, they'd be calling it Lineage 3 instead of Aion.

I hope you like surprises because it sounds like you're in for a lot of 'em.

[dalavita]

Originally Posted by Hexxeity

Dude, if they wanted to make another Lineage game, they'd be calling it Lineage 3 instead of Aion.

I hope you like surprises because it sounds like you're in for a lot of 'em.

And this is relevant to two-handed weapons being used by templars for higher DPS how?

Why don't you go ahead an call it Wow 2, the flying age instead, since I was using Wow as an example as well?

[justamemory]

calm teh fak down pl0x and cool yer egos thxxx bai

[Aggelos]

In L2, Tanks carry 1 handed sword/blunt because they ONLY have Sword/Blunt Mastery. So, even if a two handed sword or a dual-sword hit a lot harder, they still do more DPS with a 1-handed weapon due to their mastery. Right?

But, dalavita is right, and 2 handed weapons hit slower, so if you don't add any passives, you could be doing the same DPS with one or the other, but, it depends on each game mechanic, it depends on how's the crit rate of each weapon, accuracy, etc, etc.
For example, taking L2 again, Tanks use mostly swords and not blunts, because swords have a better crit rate.

So, the point is we can't know yet if one weapon will do more DPS than the other, because we don't know the game mechanics yet.

But, what we do know now, is that Templars will have exactly the same weapon mastery for 2handed swords and 1handed swords. So L2 examples don't apply here, cause there Tanks don't have 2-handed mastery.

[Sabre]

Originally Posted by dalavita

I wonder if the point of using something as an example escaped you Hexxeity.

L2, Wow, x, z, y, whatever doesn't matter. Math is math and skill mechanics are skill mechanics, and all of them are included into the bigger weapon doesn't necessarily mean better DPS argument.

It's simply speculation since we don't know how the Aion skills and passives will turn out to be, but the same goes to all the "I'll use the two-hander for extra deepeeess!" responses. More than likely the templar wannabees will be gimping themselves wielding a two-hander for DPS. I like the way you put it tho Hexxeity, basically summarized what I said. The templar is a protection warrior, they'll be wanting to use one-handed weapons for damage, just like the tanks of L2.

PS Sabre. A Chanter will be the equivalent of a Warcryer in L2. It looks to be exactly the same thing actually, but who'd figure that to happen with an NCSoft game. Keep reading the bold part and hopefully you'll figure something out soon enough.

I don't think I have stopped laughing at you since your first post here. First off, since the whole world knows that a 2-hander = twice the damage 1/2 the attack speed and we've all been past that now for years (although you're having trouble grasping that). Second, without looking at examples and stats of two weapons, we don't know which would have a higher DPS. We don't yet know Aion's system and whether they give an extra boost for 2H weapons or not, nor do we know anything at all about how DPS will unfold because of these factors. So the fact that you're trying to argue based on L2 and WoW means nothing because it has nothing to do with Aion. Period.

GG now stop trying to make people look stupid because you're only doing it to yourself~

[dalavita]

Originally Posted by Sabre

I don't think I have stopped laughing at you since your first post here. First off, since the whole world knows that a 2-hander = twice the damage 1/2 the attack speed and we've all been past that now for years (although you're having trouble grasping that). Second, without looking at examples and stats of two weapons, we don't know which would have a higher DPS. We don't yet know Aion's system and whether they give an extra boost for 2H weapons or not, nor do we know anything at all about how DPS will unfold because of these factors. So the fact that you're trying to argue based on L2 and WoW means nothing because it has nothing to do with Aion. Period.

GG now stop trying to make people look stupid because you're only doing it to yourself~

First of all, what you just wrote is what I've been saying the past few posts moron (only the last part though), as a response to your post with the "I'll use a two-hander for additional DPS" where I stated several examples where a two-hander in fact did NOT add extra DPS so as to give weight to my suggestion that there was a probability that you would not get extra DPS when wielding a two-hander as a templar. Seems like you still haven't figured that if you actually took the time to post that last post...

And the "whole world knows that a 2-hander = twice damage 1/2 attack speed" argument of yours is retarded as well. It was just an example I gave to show how it could mathematically provide the same DPS, together with different examples in the case where it would not be 2x damage, 0.5x speed, namely skills and passives.

I can give you an example of a MMO where 2hander is not = 2x damage 0.5 attack speed right away since apparently the whole world are misinformed about them always being 2x damage 0.5 attack speed, Tibia.


I'm not trying to make anyone look stupid, I'm trying to contribute to the discussion by saying to the people who suggested that they'd go two-hander for additional DPS that there would be a good chance they wouldn't get any additional DPS off getting a two-hander, you're doing a fine job of making yourself look stupid on the other hand. Less time laughing, more time thinking.

Yes Aggelos, I know that templars have two-handed weapon masteries, or at least I think they do, I haven't read their skill descriptions in a long time. Whether they'll be practical or not in the other hand in terms of DPS is impossible to say right now. I can think of a lot of games where people have had masteries in something but never used it due to it being inferior for that class.

[Fleiva]

Your attack speed matters less if the target is moving, you will get 1 attack at a time, so you might aswell make sure that attack is stronger.

I had the option to choose between 1 hand sword+shield or 2 hander, I had an Swordsinger, I ended up with the 2 hander cause of what I said, it proved itself worthy in terms of last hitting, and Aion might reward these last hits with abyss points.

As a templar in pvp you'll be the last target for anybody who knows how to target, so, unless there were many CC skills for the tank to use, or any kind of support, I'd go with a 2 hander.

That being said, this is pure speculation from what I've gathered on my previous games, it will also depend a lot on if the game is skills based or attack based, etc.