Tanking in... Leather?

[Vasilis]

That's why it might be only feasible wearing abyss leather for the pvp dmg reduction.

[Biscuit]

Daevanion's set bonus for evasion is pretty sexy too. If you've got lots of alts, I'd suggest you look into that.

[livebythecode]

Originally Posted by ValeKress

4# I was still concerned about defense from Casters such as sorcs. However, I can conclude that Dodge works nicely against those Sorcs. Sometimes in pvp, They'd fire off a CC, but it would be followed by a -Resist-. I know it's not a totally effective way to combat their magic, but it's basically giving you maximum defense against melee and 1 layer of defense against CC's.

Evasion led to resisting magic spells? I always thought the only stat that lead to magic resists was... Magic resist.

Anyways, this is all very interesting. My biggest concern is how this type of build would fare against PVE Elites. I can see how it works nicely on normal mobs, but elites will resist the effects of Blunting Severe Blow more often than not on top of having much higher accuracy...

[Sitar]

Originally Posted by khariste

What concerns me is that, currently in plate I have ~990 evasion at 40. Average accuracy at 40 is something like 1200.
Even with the abyss gold set, its only 162 more evasion, up to ~1152 evasion. If I were to slot just about every stat with evasion, i would only get ~250 more evasion, or 1400 evasion. That's cutting it pretty close if you ask me, especially as it leaves no room for hp/SB

This.

I'm level 41 and i have

1009 evasion
1352 p.def
1310 block
1210 parry
1082 accuracy


This is my group set where I'm wearing a mix of crit and hp/block mana stones. I've talked to an assassin mate level 42 who has 1447.

If i were to wear leather i would gain around 200 evasion, which means i would get around 1200. What would that change against the level 42 assassin ? i've checked a level 41 glad, he has 1100 accuracy and a level 40 assassin has 1082. 1vs1 i would be able to use blunting severe blow, but in group pvp ? forget it.

For PvE, as we dont have the numbers, i'm not really sure it worth it. I dont see myself socketing full evasion.

[Biscuit]

Originally Posted by livebythecode

Anyways, this is all very interesting. My biggest concern is how this type of build would fare against PVE Elites. I can see how it works nicely on normal mobs, but elites will resist the effects of Blunting Severe Blow more often than not on top of having much higher accuracy...

I'm planning on trying this out soon (this weekend to middle of next week). How should I go about estimating a Krall's accuracy so I know how much evasion to socket? I figured I could look up around 10 decently-geared assassins' accuracy to get a good sample size, then find the mean of that and aim to go 300 higher. Is my math wrong, or should I try a different way to make an estimate?

I've got a 43 SM paying for the best leather I can get at that level, plus green lvl 30 stones. I am planning on testing this on the lvl 17ish Kralls on Elyos side. I'll even take a shot at the boss if it amuses you, haha.

[gisborne]

Originally Posted by Biscuit

I'm planning on trying this out soon (this weekend to middle of next week). How should I go about estimating a Krall's accuracy so I know how much evasion to socket? I figured I could look up around 10 decently-geared assassins' accuracy to get a good sample size, then find the mean of that and aim to go 300 higher. Is my math wrong, or should I try a different way to make an estimate?

I've got a 43 SM paying for the best leather I can get at that level, plus green lvl 30 stones. I am planning on testing this on the lvl 17ish Kralls on Elyos side. I'll even take a shot at the boss if it amuses you, haha.

PvE elites have far less accuracy than players.

[Biscuit]

Less accuracy than high-acc classes, or less than all players? I could change my comparison class to a caster or healer.

[Adelmarh]

Just would like to say that if you are stunned, feared, knock downed etc... your evasion is... useless, meaning that in this case, you are going to take FULL damage.

As block actually. When stunned, block becomes useless too (and so becomes parry). The point you make, on the other hand, is that you take leather damage, so a bit more than wearing plate, maybe like 10% more (guessing from numbers I saw when testing (and it was from fair plate to crappy leather), I'm lazy to do the math, but I don't think it's that much more damage taken).

By the way, I just got my 2 pieces Daevanion set (still wondering if I go for the third piece, looks very interesting, but that's much time spent on rerolls =p)... I'm still hesitating to take the leather one... I wonder if it is worth... At the moment it's plate, and it's already a huge breathe (it allows to evade sometimes, without even socketing for evasion). But until the set is complete, crafted gear is better I think. But far more expensive than Daevanion's one, so I'll stick with Daevanion's one for a while.

[Biscuit]

You can always switch them out too. Only costs 60k. Bad thing is though, that you lose all your manastones!

[gisborne]

I'm going full leather on my templar when she hits 23 (in 1 more lvl), though I won't socket evasion.

[Vigilante212]

First off this has got to be the dumbest discussion I have ever seen. If I ever saw a tank in leather trying to tank i bould black list him for being a noob.

Secondly To even make your build wothrwhile you would have to stack all evasion on every item with the best stones. This would severly limit your ability to hold aggro with any dps in a group.

My character as you can see I stack evasion. I can hold my own against Sins my level, but i cant take a hit from an elite and they rarely miss me.

[khariste]

Put it to the test today.

I commissioned a legionmate to make a full set of leather gear.
I have a full blue plate set, the leather set was 3 greens and 2 blues.

I stacked all evasion, got up to 1350.


Against non-elite mobs, I do better in plate. This is because, as has been discussed here, the lower damage the mob does the more effective Pdef is.

Against elite mobs, I did better as long as the mob was the same level as I was. However, as the mob level increased, I started dodging substantially less, while I was still blocking some.

I also tested it in PVP. I did slightly better in PVP in leather than I did in plate 1v1.

The magic resistance change was minimal.


So far, I would say I recommend Leather if you primary plan on tanking Elites the same level or lower than you are. You will find you take far less damage. I will try soloing some elites tomorrow lower level and see how it works out.

Against elites higher level, however, i would not recommend leather. You will block/evade/parry less overall, but your evade and parry skills will be he first to be absorbed by the accuracy malice difference from the level difference. You'll be left with block and much less pdef. I lost something like 400 pdef going from the plate to the leather, and while it doesn't seem like much, if you aren't evading, this adds up.

However, when mobs are hitting for 2500 and you have 6k unbuffed HP, as has been stated, that pdef doesn't matter. But neither does the evasion, as you'll still only evade barely at all.

To put myself to the ultimate test, I tanked a boss naked except for sword and shield. Low and behold, gear basically meant jack all when they hit that hard. Cleric could hardly tell the difference between full blue plate and naked, as it was still sporatic high pulse dmg.

What matters most in this game is manastone slots.
So my suggestion is that, unless you can slot out the sets, just go for whatever has the most manastone slots. HP and Crit manastones, in that order, should be king above all else.


Also, I fully intend to have 3 sets of gear for pvp. Plate for sins / rangers, cloth for casters, leather for glads / templars.

[Biscuit]

Originally Posted by Vigilante212

First off this has got to be the dumbest discussion I have ever seen. If I ever saw a tank in leather trying to tank i bould black list him for being a noob.

Secondly To even make your build wothrwhile you would have to stack all evasion on every item with the best stones. This would severly limit your ability to hold aggro with any dps in a group.

My character as you can see I stack evasion. I can hold my own against Sins my level, but i cant take a hit from an elite and they rarely miss me.

Either you're a troll, or you seriously have something against reading. Let's hope people recognize this before they type out a rage-y reply.

[Sitar]

Really nice feedback Khariste, i really look forward the test results against lower elites.

On a side note, a bit off topic, what's your position on block mana stones since you say HP > Crit > else

[Gourdin]

Hmm, I'm agree with the numbers from the test.

For now Leather > Plate for avoidance, even if it is equivalent and not superior I hope it's just a developper's mistake which will be fix soon... Don't see any interest in tanking (among other) in Leather and even less the common sence of this...

(Sorry for Google trad' mistakes - )