Mace for Templar

[Warfire]

I don't understand some of the viewpoints on this particular topic. It's no reason to flame, yell or jump up and down or shout, but it does beggar belief.

The real pattern here really isn't 1 class is for 1 weapon as suggested in the last post. It comes down to will you use it and should you be allowed to.

In my kin we run FT groups regularly, though we have yet to see a Gold Drop.

The usual make up is: Templar, Cleric, Chanter, Sin, Sin, Cleric (as we tend to group together a lot)

1 cleric heals, 1 does dps.

Both sins have said quite honestly that when they max phys crit with stones they will take the dagger but prefer the sword. Fair enough (I am the tank btw).

As far as we are all concerned, we know what each person would like or what each of us would use. That is pretty much the end of story.

3 will roll on Mace, 3 will roll on the sword, 2 on the dagger, 1 on the 2hs(only becuase only 1 can use), 1 on the staff, and 3 on the Sipus Shield.

We all respect eachother and have played MMO's for years with eachother so there is no confusion.

As long as there is a viable reason why you would like to roll on an item then you should roll if it is a primary use. It's not a greed roll, it's simply about what you see as your personal build and what you would like to include in your build.

The same should be for any group and any cleric that says "I am leaving I want the mace to be mine if it drops" should reconsider why they group with people. Honest people share and only roll if they have good reason, not just to step on others toes. If someone in the group wants to use the item, they should have a right to roll on it fair and square.

If they can't use it then yes they should abstain in favour of those who can use it, not that all groups follow that policy. but most I have seen are very respectful when it comes to class useable items.

[RamzaBehoulve]

Originally Posted by Terhix

It's worth it for Magic Smash alone. Yes, it's only one ability, but it's the highest and most reliable burst damage you will ever have as a shield wielding templar, I hit people for 1k in pvp, and my mace isn't really good to begin with. Without a mace, magic smash is ****.

edit: also, there are maces like this one, if you ever see a cleric rolling on that one, you need to change a cleric.

Even then, I'm pretty sure the combined extra damage from all abilities in one DPS rotation with the Sword will cover for the MB on the mace for that one ability...

Afterall, MS alone won't kill anyone, you'll have to do at least a full DPS skill rotation too to kill your target.

I really think the main point of that attack is the range and the stun, not the damage, but to each his own. I'll craft myself the lvl 45 blue sword and mace when I finally get there and compare them against each other and we'll see if MB really is that much of a big deal.

It's really a matter of how much +attack or +crit (and even accuracy) your sacrifice on the weapon for that extra MB. I really doubt MB is free in the stat budget of an item.

PS : Menotio's Warhammer is retardly good compared to the sword, I wouldn't be surprised if we see its stats changed in the future to something more Cleric-like

[Terhix]

Originally Posted by RamzaBehoulve

Even then, I'm pretty sure the combined extra damage from all abilities in one DPS rotation with the Sword will cover for the MB on the mace for that one ability...

No it's not, and I'm not "pretty sure" about that, I'm 100% sure as I've tested it.

edit:

Originally Posted by RamzaBehoulve

I really think the main point of that attack is the range and the stun, not the damage, but to each his own.

Talking about Magic Smash here, not Divine Justice.

[RamzaBehoulve]

Originally Posted by Terhix

Talking about Magic Smash here, not Divine Justice.

Good point, always mix them up, thanks.

[Terhix]

BTW, as far as m.boost coming for free, swords get +2 attack per upgrade, maces get +3 attack and +20 magic boost per upgrade, it really is for free. The only thing that makes sword a better melee weapon is the crit multiplier really, which doesn't make that much of a difference when your biggest nuke is a spell anyway. Menotios's Warhammer is only one example, there is a whole bunch of maces that are clearly melee oriented, and as such can be considered "templar weapon".

[shaded]

You may have some valid points there, it's just that fairness commands me to NOT roll for the mace over my cleric, for the sole reason that he could not roll for the sword over myself.

But...you are really proud of 1k Magic Smash hits using a mace? Wow, Face Smash already hits for more than that. No magic boost required. I know, it's not a ranged attack but you can't unleash the whole MS-chain from range anyway.

[Terhix]

Originally Posted by shaded

You may have some valid points there, it's just that fairness commands me to NOT roll for the mace over my cleric, for the sole reason that he could not roll for the sword over myself.

But...you are really proud of 1k Magic Smash hits using a mace? Wow, Face Smash already hits for more than that. No magic boost required. I know, it's not a ranged attack but you can't unleash the whole MS-chain from range anyway.

That's in PvP with PvP damage reduction, I'm hitting for 19XX on mobs, gold +10 mace on 50 is going to be around 23XX on mobs. ALWAYS, no RNG involved.

[Stome]

Originally Posted by RamzaBehoulve

Even then, I'm pretty sure the combined extra damage from all abilities in one DPS rotation with the Sword will cover for the MB on the mace for that one ability...

Afterall, MS alone won't kill anyone, you'll have to do at least a full DPS skill rotation too to kill your target.

I really think the main point of that attack is the range and the stun, not the damage, but to each his own. I'll craft myself the lvl 45 blue sword and mace when I finally get there and compare them against each other and we'll see if MB really is that much of a big deal.

It's really a matter of how much +attack or +crit (and even accuracy) your sacrifice on the weapon for that extra MB. I really doubt MB is free in the stat budget of an item.

PS : Menotio's Warhammer is retardly good compared to the sword, I wouldn't be surprised if we see its stats changed in the future to something more Cleric-like

Where do people come up with this bull over and over again? The math has been showen in a number of threads proveing a swords dps is not any real amount higher then a mace. No I am not going to go hunt them down for anyone go look yourself.

The biggest reason Temps get retarded BS for rolling on a weapon we should be using is all the flat out stupid misinformation people spout.

[RamzaBehoulve]

Originally Posted by Stome

Where do people come up with this bull over and over again? The math has been showen in a number of threads proveing a swords dps is not any real amount higher then a mace. No I am not going to go hunt them down for anyone go look yourself.

The biggest reason Temps get retarded BS for rolling on a weapon we should be using is all the flat out stupid misinformation people spout.

The maths that's been done has been done only for auto-attacks with a lvl 30 cap during OB. Skills hit for a lot more and benefit a lot more from crit multiplier.

If anything, you are the one believing anything thrown at you and take it for granted.

Just because some particular samples show Maces and Sword to be close does not mean they really are in the most common situation.

We can't parse any real testing session yet, any samples we are working on are small and specific situations.

PS : I was part of the thread you are talking about, so when it comes to reading, maybe you should pay more attention next time.

[Terhix]

Thing is, swords are better melee weapons, but by a rather small margin. The difference on Magic Smash damage with and without mace on the other hand, is huge.

[Warfire]

I think the thing to remember Shaded is that maces are a viable weapon, and given the drop rate of gold weapons, you might spend 5 to 10 levels in FT until you reach Xeno quest lvl trying to upgrade your weapon, and not see either weapon.

The fact then is that a gear dependant class such as a tank will be leaving themselves underpowered just so that a Cleric can say "I got my shiny thing!!" (Just like Cat from Red Dwarf assuming you know that comedy).

Clerics use maces but very little about Clerics at present require them to have the latest upgrade. They aren't melee and some that do solo and melee using a staff.

In that context, you might also argue that a Cleric rolling on a mace is a waste, particularly given that it gives them less benefit since it's a melee weapon and they don't really have melee reliant skills.

A templar won't have issue with them rolling because it is still a viable weapon for a cleric, so the same sentiment should be returned.

Until concrete evidence is provided that says Templars can't tank or solo using a mace, for the most heavily gear dependant class, every step forward is a step in the right direction.

Also from an aesthetic perspective, I prefer the look of maces over swords, not just the functionality.

[Jestor]

Here is the real question. It's not about classes! Is the item an upgrade for you? Then roll. If it isn't an upgrade? Pass. Don't let the clerics push you around.

[RamzaBehoulve]

We have Inferno until Xenophon (at least Elyos do)

[zuliox]

Don't even let it faze you to roll on a mace.

Of course look at the stats to see if it makes sense if it has like concentration and MP don't bother.
IMO though they are not optimum, as sword is our prefered weapon, but if you have a long dry spell on swords then go for it

Clerics will want the same exact shields as you as a templar and they will roll on them, so do not even hesitate rolling on a mace if it has templar stats.

The game has many overlapping weapons and technically per that list that was posted they should be the default in groups without question, however it doesn't always work like that

[notical]

Why do people keep asking the same questions? -_-lll

Templars roll on Swords, Maces, Greatswords, Shields and Plate Armor pieces. Period.