Mace for Templar

[shaded]

For me, a non-boosted Face Smash hits for about 500-600 and crits for well over 1000 @ lvl 35, using Inferno and the blue crafted lvl 35 shield. That's a 10 level difference to a magic boosted Magic Smash 1k hits @ lvl 45.

So, sorry, but I just can't get that point. Doesn't Face Smash scale with level and gear? If it does, then it should outdamage Magic Smash by far, if not at least be on par with it. And it won't require you to head for stats that are meant for other classes. I just can't visually imagine a brute force class beeing dependent on magic boost. Is there something I miss here?

Concerning the other arguments, I know that the cleric that I always group with would never ever roll for a shield that has tanking stats on it over myself, just because he can use it.

At the end, I guess that's just a thing of running an instance random or with regulars.

[Malkieri]

1) to that Cleric nyerking about having onl one possible drop from the boss (which is untrue anway as there is that blue neck piece), welcome to life. Life isnt fair. Some classes like Gladiator has a gold weapons ONLY THEM can get. Others, like Cleric, only have one ''Main Spec'' drop (which in FT has MELEE stats btw...). And then there are classes like templar that has 3 options but is stuck rolling against just about every other class. You can nyerk all you want about your situation, but so could I, so lets not go there.

2) Comparing Cleric using a Staff to Templar using a mace is dumb. If you want to compare, compare cleric+staff to templar+GS. THATS our ''offspec''. On the other hand, mace is used to tank. Do you heal with a staff?

3) Mace is actually MUCH MUCH better for any tank built templar. The only thing sword has is higher crit multiplier, and for a SD/HP toon that has under 50 crit, that doesnt mean much compared to: higher base damage, Higher Macc (IJ/stuns++++), and the MBoost to get our only decent hitting skill (without crit build) about double its sword-based value.

4) the FT mace has HP and Physical crit and physical attack on it... why exactly do you need it more then a melee class?

Therefore, all my cleric friends, QQ moar will you?

[shaded]

Thank god I will never have to run an instance with an arrogant, insulting and ignorant person like you, Sir.

[Malkieri]

So why am i arrogant, because i tell you you are wrong? Grow up a bit. Im frank. Im direct. Not everyone will put white gloves and rose glasses every time the want to talk to you.

Why am I insulting, because i have yet to see one insult in my first text... in fact i even said im not gonna get into nyerking.

Why am i ignorant? Id be extremely curious to know which of my points exactly is so wrong or misguided.
1) everyone does have different loot situation,
2) Yes a Staff for Cleric is close then a GS for Templar as it is the weapon you use to perform your secondary role, while mace is used for our primary role.
3) Mace actually is much better for tanking gemmed templar. Im not one of those, but i have been.
4) FT mace is full of melee stats.
So again, how exactly am I ignorant?

YOU on the other hand, compare a skill that is a 10% proc chance skill on a 50% proc skill (AT MAX VALUE, i.e. 10% on a skill usable after getting a hit on a 50% capped blocking rate). thats a 5% chance. So you take a 5% chance to be even usable skill, then you have it crit. So with a full crit build that is a 45% chance. Yes i know this math is simplistic and flawed because there are in fact 3 different source-skills. But there is also the factor of ''i need to get hit by a physical type class in the first place''. If you are being ignored, or fighting a mage class, enjoy.

So you are comparing something that happens about 2.5% to 5% of the time to a skill you can use on demand 100% of the time. Face Smash vs Magic Smash is like comparing a cat and a strawberry: absolutely useless outisde the ''I so want to prove my point'' factor.

btw the 1k+ magic smash is without the Mboost, with it its closer to 1.7-2k. Yes thats on a mob. If you ever see face smash crit for 1k+ on a player at 35... well i call bull heh

I find it ironic that you come on your high horses with a typical ''insults but no argument'' post, trying to somehow project that on me...

[Sera]

That's a tanking staff rite?1

[Malkieri]

Originally Posted by Sera

That's a tanking staff rite?1

wait...

what?

[Terhix]

Originally Posted by shaded

For me, a non-boosted Face Smash hits for about 500-600 and crits for well over 1000 @ lvl 35, using Inferno and the blue crafted lvl 35 shield. That's a 10 level difference to a magic boosted Magic Smash 1k hits @ lvl 45.

So, sorry, but I just can't get that point. Doesn't Face Smash scale with level and gear? If it does, then it should outdamage Magic Smash by far, if not at least be on par with it. And it won't require you to head for stats that are meant for other classes. I just can't visually imagine a brute force class beeing dependent on magic boost. Is there something I miss here?

Yes, you are missing how Magic Smash is actually scaling incredibly well with magic boost, and that swords have 0 while +10 golden mace on 50 will have 940+ magic boost. Face smash / shield retribution / whatever crits for less than Magic Smash hits for every single time (it's a spell, it doesn't crit, it just hits for 2k). It's reliable, RNG independent burst, it allows you to take down stone skin in one combo with 100% success rate.

[Airstu]

Yes, you are missing how Magic Smash is actually scaling incredibly well with magic boost, and that swords have 0 while +10 golden mace on 50 will have 940+ magic boost. Face smash / shield retribution / whatever crits for less than Magic Smash hits for every single time (it's a spell, it doesn't crit, it just hits for 2k). It's reliable, RNG independent burst, it allows you to take down stone skin in one combo with 100% success rate.

What he said.

If you done want to use a mace, be my guest. I have the FT gold mace. Inferno is gathering dust. I will be grabbing X's mace when I can, and I will be happily magic smashing.

[Vabjekf]

Extendable is the deal breaker i think.

magic smash benefits from mboost, yeah

IJ is based on m.acc, right.

But sword does more damage than mace even with magic smash gains factored in.

However there are tons of extendable maces, few extendable swords.

So if the first extendable weapon you see happens to be a mace, go for it ^-^

[Terhix]

Originally Posted by Vabjekf

But sword does more damage than mace even with magic smash gains factored in.

No, it does not.

[Vabjekf]

Originally Posted by Terhix

No, it does not.

higher crit multiplier says it does.

[Eurlin]

Only when crit multiplier is used to it's full potential. Most people won't be at that point for a very very long time though, where as Magic Smash is there at 45 and only requires a mace to be fully useful.

This is what i have had done a while ago, i stopped because i got a headache from crunching too many numbers and repeat processing.



All that was done at level 1 skill stats and i forgot to account for a few things, like the % damage increase from armor and the attack speed increase. I also think i never accounted for the +100 Magic boost from the enchanting which is a substantial amount. If you want to add it in there go ahead it's not hard. i just refuse to do this stuff right now.



This is the information you need to fill in the blanks if you can make anything of it congrats. if not i'm sorry it's been a while =x.


This is as accurate as i can get without extensive testing that i will not do because i don't care enough. (i.e. passive skills, exact multipliers, exact numbers etc) I did not account for defense but it will only close the gap between the two numbers, i didn't try to value the skills up to level 9, and i didn't add in a few other things i'm sure. if i ever get back into it i'll rework it to be more helpful.

I know these aren't your weapons of choice maybe since the mace is terribly scaled down vs the sword, but it was made to also show the unbalance of weapons and to get the right stones socketed for the best result. I never intended to make this chart a weapon vs weapon one, but it helps show some answers.

As for the whole which weapon to roll and not roll on. I roll on everything i want to use, if i have a use for it. If your cleric has a problem with that, find another that isn't a selfish bastard. I won't stop an assassin or Glad from rolling on my swords..it's in there right to do so. I won't even stop a Glad from rolling on a great sword, and i won't stop a cleric from rolling on a mace...but you can bet your *** i'll roll on all 3

[Vabjekf]

Thats a neat spreadsheet do you have a download for it?=P

The problem i have with saying X weapon is better in certain conditions (not enough +attack while leveling to make the crit multiplier work for you, the freedom to use all the GS stigmas, etc), is that there is always going to be another factor that is impossible to standardize AT ALL, which weapons you currently have available to you.

So i take any general discussions vs weapon types to assume 'end game' with 'good gear'. because if you are going to talk about specific situations we may as well evaluate each persons gear and options and decide whats best for them at that moment.

I like maces,

One idea i have is having two weapon setups

1. Abyss sword and shield
2. An extendable mace with high mboost, and a MBoost shield, socketed with full Mboost stones

I think this has potential to be more valuable than GS on switch for the extra stun, depending.

[Dolen]

No class is "locked" into what it can roll unless they can't use it.

I static group with a Templar (i'm a cleric). Me and my friend know that if it doesn't have MP/Con. then i want it if it doesn't i probably will pass it anyways.

I would suggest talking with the cleric before hand about rolling items like a mace. Its true we don't get anything from MB for healing but we also have to solo or do pvp where it will help us out. Not all clerics are always grouping.

[Eurlin]

I only have it on my excel spreadsheet and i have no idea how to upload those. though most of the info is on my photobucket and on this forum already.

I do have it all on a PDF too i think.

Sword and Mace swap is a good idea, it saves you from needing to switch stigmas or never having that 5th stigma slot (needing for great sword) and gives you that high boost damage you want. definitely worth considering. i personally don't find a true use for greatsword at 50 either.