[Phoenix Pinion]

100% Proc Rate This is what it looks like now on the korean website. This is also what I think that Victor Shugo thing is going to be thats posted on the main site. Use 3 white items to combine into 1 green item to get 100% proc. Sounds nice but will they go back and fix the stats on the other items to make them worth crafting since gear is going to be so much easier to get? Also miragents/fenris quests get nerfed to be easier. Not going to spend anymore bloods until we get the full details on this.

[Fiets]

Isn't this 2.2? That's gonna take at least 4 months to reach us, lol

[PetPet]

Phoenix Pinion, on 04 November 2010 - 10:31 AM, said:

100% Proc Rate This is what it looks like now on the korean website. This is also what I think that Victor Shugo thing is going to be thats posted on the main site. Use 3 white items to combine into 1 green item to get 100% proc. Sounds nice but will they go back and fix the stats on the other items to make them worth crafting since gear is going to be so much easier to get? Also miragents/fenris quests get nerfed to be easier. Not going to spend anymore bloods until we get the full details on this.

Link to new stuff (your link was to the main page, this goes directly to the new stuff)

Crafting changes (as far as I can tell, translation is sloppy)
1. There are new designs to make the Noble version of white items. These designs require 3 of the regular white item and what looks to be some vendor items. I have no idea what happens if this craft procs, or if it can proc, as it's already intended to make the Noble version. This is ONLY for white items; it specifically state that there are no designs like this for rare and above.

2. Mat costs were greatly reduced for some crafts, but relatively unchanged for others. Weaponsmithing seems to have not changed much.

Example: Nanyu Staff (white) went from 40 nanyu rods, 58 nanyu boards, 6 fluxes, and 54 aether to 15 rods, 22 boards, 6 fluxes, and 18 aether.

Example: Drenium Hauberk (white) went from 26 chains, 11 medium plates, 4 fluxes, and 30 aether to 22 chains, 4 plates, 4 fluxes, and 11 aether.

Example: Durable Orichalcum Greatsword (white) went from 30 rods, 51 nails, 6 fluxes, and 59 aether to 30 rods, 49 nails, 6 fluxes, and 31 aether.

3. Balic mat drop rate "greatly increased".

4. Balic designs may now be purchased from vendors directly with balaur hearts. Green designs are 42, blue are 126, and orange are 378.

5. The Expert quest now has a "sure" design (sold from vendors) which will work very similar to the Master quest (there's a luck version, and a 100% proc version). The fluxes used for the Expert quest are now sold from the vendor, same as they are for the Master quest. Since the Master quest already works this way, it remains unchanged.

Thoughts: Being able to make the Noble version out of White crafts is pretty nice, but honestly it's going to save you time more than it saves you kinah (although it should save you some kinah). On my server, it costs about 1.8mill to make a white item, and they sell for ~900k to the vendor, so that's 2.7million + whatever the vendor mats cost to make the noble version. In the long run it should save you a couple million per Noble white weapon, but again, the real benefit is the time saved by not having to craft so many damn ingots, nails, and rods. Also, this will hopefully reduce the price of Drenium ore a bit, as not as much of it will be needed.

About lower mat costs: I totally called it that they'd have to change mat costs if they were changing drop rates. *flex*

Balic mat drop rate increase: Good, it doesn't effect me as much since I'm already a Master, but it's good. We'll have to see just how much it's changed before I can make any real comments anyway.

Balic heart design purchases: God damn, 378 hearts for a gold recipe? That's crazy. I guess it's nice when you only need 1 or 2 more recipes, but in general I think people will still go for random recipes until they have most of the designs, then finish off their book with purchased designs if they're a completionist. I suppose that was the design intent of this mechanic.

All in all, very good changes. I can't wait to see them on Live in the west.

edit: Added examples of mat cost changes.

[aga123]

Like Kaaskop said, we wont be getting this patch for months and months, so there's absolutely no reason to even be thinking about it now.

[SeismoGraf]

aga123, on 04 November 2010 - 03:14 PM, said:

Like Kaaskop said, we wont be getting this patch for months and months, so there's absolutely no reason to even be thinking about it now.

Not exactly. If your goal is to craft a Master Carved weapon (which takes huge amounts of time, effort and kinah), then just gathering the materials and waiting for the patch may be a wise option! Consider this:

PetPet, on 04 November 2010 - 11:19 AM, said:

Example: Nanyu Staff (white) went from 40 nanyu rods, 58 nanyu boards, 6 fluxes, and 54 aether to 15 rods, 22 boards, 6 fluxes, and 18 aether.

Currently you need 276 nanyu log for one try. If above numbers are correct, you only need 104 nanyu log after the patch. This is a huge difference, especially when considering that you may have to craft this item a 100 or more times.

[Amaris]

SeismoGraf, on 27 December 2010 - 11:11 PM, said:

Not exactly. If your goal is to craft a Master Carved weapon (which takes huge amounts of time, effort and kinah), then just gathering the materials and waiting for the patch may be a wise option!

not exactly. Yes, you'll need to pay less and have a bigger shot at a noble master weapon. Master Carved is still unavailable if you live on a healthy server.

[Bikini]

If (and I don't doubt that in fact) what Petpet translated is true, then it's not major changes in crafting, it's major changes in Weapon crafting (works also for wood weapons and orbs/books) and Handicrafting.

This patch will not affect by the slightiest the armor crafts (AS and tailor). We don't craft white armors, I hope koreans know that...

So unless the craft mats actually really decrease in price, unless the balic drop rate changes A LOT then this patch will have no effect on armor crafting

On the bright side : if balic mats drop alot more (like one per balaur) then we will, at last have a reasonnable way to level up crafts (not affecting me anymore, but still good overall) and we will also start to actually craft balic armors, either for looks (green sets, I am missing one design) either for stats (gold sets are better than master noble) but they also need to change the exchange rate for the balaur hearts...

[Anike]

The only one question is "when this patch will be on NA/EU?"...

[Baolun]

Bikini, on 28 December 2010 - 10:01 PM, said:

This patch will not affect by the slightiest the armor crafts (AS and tailor). We don't craft white armors, I hope koreans know that...

Au contraire! As far as I can tell, all or most crafts have had their basic white mat requirement slashed. The Master Drenium Shield, for example, currently requires 3328 drenium ingots; the recipe in Korea only takes 968, which also reduces charcoal and metal acid costs by 7.5 million. I've already advised my guildmates not to commission any master armor from me until 2.2 comes out unless they have money to burn.

Now, if only they'd reduce the number of heliotrope crystals required...

[Spaceferret]

Baolun, on 29 December 2010 - 10:56 AM, said:

Au contraire! As far as I can tell, all or most crafts have had their basic white mat requirement slashed. The Master Drenium Shield, for example, currently requires 3328 drenium ingots; the recipe in Korea only takes 968, which also reduces charcoal and metal acid costs by 7.5 million. I've already advised my guildmates not to commission any master armor from me until 2.2 comes out unless they have money to burn.

Now, if only they'd reduce the number of heliotrope crystals required...

Yeah keeping this in mind I will prob stick to gathering/moneymaking for pve and do normal PvP stuff until 2.2. I will hold on to fluxes though despite the lower amounts needed. Im fairly certain the usage will jump through the roof as people realize how obtainable this will make excellent crafted gear.

[aga123]

It's not 2.2, it's just the second half of 2.1. And will probably take at another 2 months to reach us, judging by the past of NCsoft.

[Bikini]

What I meant Baolun is that the system allowing to make a green out of three uncritted white has no effect on tailoring and armorsmithing.

If the number of material needed for each craft (even master) is reduced, that is indeed good news. That said, at the moment, I am crafting a master armor part every 6 days and the hardest part is not to get 1500 drenite ores nor to pay the 4 mm of craft mats, it's to have to wait 6 days for the bloody crystals.

I would certainly enjoy to be able to transform any non critted craft into the critted one by combining three of each. THAT would be a solution to save crafting : people would get the higher version when they want it, it would only be a bit more costly than the non critted version.

If you consider how easy it is to get a good armor part to drop, it would make perfect sense for all to have access to the best crafted gear. (and it would still be quite expensive, calculate the mats for three full sets of master armor and you'll see it's more than worth a couple of trips to BT)

[Phoenix Pinion]

Bikini, on 02 January 2011 - 07:43 AM, said:

What I meant Baolun is that the system allowing to make a green out of three uncritted white has no effect on tailoring and armorsmithing.

If the number of material needed for each craft (even master) is reduced, that is indeed good news. That said, at the moment, I am crafting a master armor part every 6 days and the hardest part is not to get 1500 drenite ores nor to pay the 4 mm of craft mats, it's to have to wait 6 days for the bloody crystals.

I would certainly enjoy to be able to transform any non critted craft into the critted one by combining three of each. THAT would be a solution to save crafting : people would get the higher version when they want it, it would only be a bit more costly than the non critted version.

If you consider how easy it is to get a good armor part to drop, it would make perfect sense for all to have access to the best crafted gear. (and it would still be quite expensive, calculate the mats for three full sets of master armor and you'll see it's more than worth a couple of trips to BT)

I am kind of on the fence with this issue and it being for every craft. Tailor by far doesnt need anymore help what so ever. Its the only craft guaranteed to make money if you craft and vendor the waste materials. Armorsmith, weapons, handi, and alchemy dont get that luxury. I think what would be best is if they do allow 3 combining on the final product then it needs to be bound to the account like the lvl 30 daeva gear so that you can at least provide stuff for your alts. I dont think the final combine using 3 should be sellable to players.

[Bikini]

I cannot agree with you : the two crafts I know well (tailoring and Armorsmithing) are, at the moment not at all interesting because of the price of the materials and the time it will take to gather it all. What's worse is that you have to be lucky to crit the item after only a handfull of crafts and even when you get there the item isn't as good as an instance drop.

Those two crafts badly need a great reduction of the price or number of materials (the fact the flux got dirt cheap was, unfortunately compensated by the important raise in the value of gathered materials). Believe me, as a free crafter I remember when I crafted 10 expert armor pieces a day for people asking, no I am happy if I make two a week. The demand has completely plumetted.

All the above doesn't change the fact that the other craft are in an even harder situation.

There would be two ways to make crafted gear a real must have : set bonuses for armors, dual wielding weapons, accessory sets, and a way to have a guaranted crit after a small number of crits for all the items whatever the level.

Ho and also, and how could they not think about that : crafted, pve oriented gear should have dmg reduction/attack buff versus mobs. So people who get a pve set for when they pve and a pvp set as they have now, to pvp.

[dstuff]

Phoenix Pinion, on 03 January 2011 - 11:49 AM, said:

Its the only craft guaranteed to make money if you craft and vendor the waste materials.

Vendoring waste (?) crafted materials (or items, or w/e) is an abomination and quite a core of this broken system. Among few other things like:

- depressing stats on most of the crafted gear
- almost no set bonuses (or useless set bonuses)
- usual (with exceptions) inferiority to analogous (level, color) dropped or even quest-obtained gear - just use "compare" on any aion database site, and don't forget about factoring set bonuses of drops
- total DB waste: white and green crafts (wtf...), besides accidental good skin
- critting, both for items (up to 4 stages) and materials (up to 2)
- stupidly insane material requirements (barely touched in 2.1p2) - for example, a bonusless "set" of master prolix clothes with belt/bandana - a rough equivalent of inggison/udas cloth sets - requires ~20,000 prolix fibers (not mentioning other stuff), 2 months of heliotrope crystals and 2 digit million worth of npc junk. Assuming you are not aiming at critted items. Quadruple the numbers for a good measure if you do.
- nex ore (implementation of it, and resulting items never cease to amaze me)
- practically nonexistent material drops (and balics especially, which can't be workarounded by morphing), when the assumption for recipes was roughly: node = 3 mats and mob = 3 mats; (2.1p2 is a pure mockery in this context)
- poor distribution of nodes, often on grounds densly packed with mobs - providing minuscule amount of materials relatively to crafting requirements
- completely disjoint from pvp (there're good and simple ways to mix both, and even throw pets into the mix)
- mostly disjoint from pve - crafts like: gossam, surkana, narikiki - are few and far between, often resulting with nothing special (especially in this category: not critted crafts); not mentioning drop rate of those parts ... Those kind of crafts (in fixed form) should be the predominant part of crafting. Assuming other crafting problems are fixed as well.
- heliotrope crafts - I could skin a person alive (and thoroughly enjoy my time) who limited that to 1 craft per 24 hours. Basically "how to introduce master crafting and cripple it at the same time"
- master carved fragments - an appendix of sorts to heliotropes; possibly acceptable on well balanced servers
- drop rate of recipes making some of them mythological
- balaur recipe lottery (changed to super expensive shop in 2.1p2)
- silly timesink: "craft all", ram some key, and go out for hours

Few things that turned out relatively fine in this crafting/gathering "system" is: aether gathering, in some special cases material gathering, manastone crafts, consumables crafts.

How many of the outlined problems above (not all there are, by any means) does this "crafting patch" address ? Two simplistic bandaids ?

Realize it's in the game, where you currently spend main part of pve time on rushes: 20min TL rush, 20min DC rush, udas rush. Getting the equipment from pure, mindless pve is trivial compared to crafting attempts of, usually inferior gear either way. Even boring, retarded x10 - x40 repeatable "content" in balaurea look far more appealing than attempting any crafting.

It's a minor tuning - though welcome, considering how broken the system we currently have is - hell, currently almost any change is welcome, no matter how bandaid-ish or primitive it is.



Anyway....

Whole 100% from 3 items has been mentioned in more details in earlier news. From quick math I did, it's certainly not a way to save kinah - it will actually bump up the price a bit (though that depends on basic factors such as: how many crafting materials one farms him/herself - so crafters buying 10,000 stones from broker, will certainly save cash this way as well). It will cut down the material and time requirements considerably (after all, it's only for stage 1 white crafts, and afaik only full items).

[Spaceferret]

Wow Dstuff I actually read that entire post word for word and agree. It is nice to meet someone who thinks of the broader picture when examining a system. I have explained systems in very similar ways to have people look at me cross-eyed. You bring several very good points to light. I believe the Devs started with a basically decent system and ruined it over time. They let it scale too far in material requirements, we know this is being addressed. They have mob drops (Balic) which limit leveling craft as well as finished item production, this looks to being addressed as well. Node placement in Ingesson is outright horrible most of what I gather is guarded by an aggressive mob, I doubt they will do anything here. The crafted items are trash compared to dropped sets, I don't see any mention of adjustments here.

I'm looking forward to the changes, right now there isn't much worth crafting.

[dstuff]

As an offtopic remark, my workaround for nodes is:

a) send aether + DP jellies to clannies, asking them to morph before logoff or whenever they feel like like they won't be needing DP in next 30 minutes
b) go to talloc's hollow for rapid DP refill .... boring but efficient

Both can bring pretty impressive amount of mats quickly and pretty damn cheap as a bonus.

[Phoenix Pinion]

dstuff, on 05 January 2011 - 07:33 AM, said:

As an offtopic remark, my workaround for nodes is:

a) send aether + DP jellies to clannies, asking them to morph before logoff or whenever they don't feel like needing DP in next 30 minutes
b) go to talloc's hollow for rapid DP refill .... boring but efficient

Both can bring pretty impressive amount of mats quickly and pretty damn cheap as a bonus.

This is what I do. Its the only reason I set foot into Taloc's Hollow with its horrid drop rate. I was able to morph tons of platinum and ulmus logs this way. I might eventually do this for the higher level stuff if the freaking designs ever drop or get put on the broker.

[Baolun]

Spaceferret, on 05 January 2011 - 06:51 AM, said:

I believe the Devs started with a basically decent system and ruined it over time.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. The Aion crafting system was fundamentally broken from the start, because it was designed to take advantage of the fact that most Koreans pay by the hour rather than by the month. Everything from the inconveniently scattered resource nodes to the recently introduced "bundle crafts" that make 10x the product of a single craft at once but require 12x the mats stems from this. Nex ore and its products are a particularly pure example, but at least half of the complaints on dstuff's list are in some way caused by the fact that, in Korea, the more time you spend online, the more money NCsoft makes. (Why not change this for the western market, you ask? Two reasons: 1. It would take time and effort, and 2. They obviously don't want to reduce the timesinkiness for Koreans, and Koreans would be really annoyed if it got reduced for us and not them.)

As for why so much crafted gear sucks, I haven't the slightest idea. It's dismaying how many recipes my master armorsmith knows but will never have any reason to craft.

[Elture_3275161]

Hey guys,

Just in case you missed them, patch 2.5 notes are up [here]

And the part about crafting:

2.Added new advanced designs that allow players to craft the greater crafting output even when the crafting fails to proc.

The new design uses 3 superior grade items, fluxes, and shop ingredients to craft a heroic grade item, just the same way as crafting a superior grade item uses 3 regular grade items.

Added new superior equivalents to Balic Designs just like the regular crafting items.
- General crafting
Added 306 new advanced designs each for Elyos and Asmodians.
There will now be a 100% success rate when crafting heroic grade [noble] items.

- Balic Designs
Added 172 new advanced designs each for Elyos and Asmodians.
There will now be a 100% success rate when crafting heroic grade [noble] items

I guess this will be only as 3 green = 1 blue (one more step removed when crafting weapons or accesories), but it is really nice for handicrafters at least.

Also, crafting balic stuff will be a lot easier... wish I could get the 5 green 55 bows that failed to proc back now :P

The 100% success rate is good as well... having a master weapon fail would be teh suck.