[Grayy]

The OP wants to make a program that uses the same methods well known hack apps are using, disregarding the fact that it breaks the EULA and is a punishable offense. (note, the damage meter is also considered "illegal" cause it's against EULA policy, but Ncsoft was lenient towards it).

And honestly, what's the point of this program ?? Videos with obvious hackers have been published and sent to Ncsoft and still the same people are more than jolly to keep abusing the system without punishment. You honestly think a log file from an unathorized program can make any difference? just lol...

This post has been edited by Grayy: 13 March 2012 - 04:55 PM

[StingerX]

u find a hacker
u report him/her
u pray they really check him/her out

-


all better then accepting the fact they hack and ignore&continue as if nothing happens.


@mikuni: include a automatic report using HTML/PHPcode so ppl actually do report with just a buttonclick while they re logged in on the site(oif it works ofc) and ur app will be a hit^^

This post has been edited by StingerX: 13 March 2012 - 05:35 PM

[tamagoyaki]

op clearly stated that the program will break the eula.

i think a log file have its uses. gather enough positives, show to an authoritative figure, watch ncsoft/gameforge panic.

btw i voted no because hax vs hax is the best

[Mikuni]

StingerX, on 13 March 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

u find a hacker
u report him/her
u pray they really check him/her out

-


all better then accepting the fact they hack and ignore&continue as if nothing happens.


@mikuni: include a automatic report using HTML/PHPcode so ppl actually do report with just a buttonclick while they re logged in on the site(oif it works ofc) and ur app will be a hit^^

Dps meter is not illegal to use, the only part slightly against the EULA is enabling the chatlog. What the meter does after that is completely alienated from the Aion client, it's just like if you'd open the log file with Notepad and read it.

Auto login/report to their site is easy, pretty experienced with this stuff; however.. gotta be selective with this, can't tell gf/nc you found a hacker by using non-legit methods.

Just wanna hear opinions about this though for now then I'll see, it would still take considerable work.

[Balls_]

So far GF do not gives a crap about people exploiting, just like NCSoft.
There was a time 3-4 month ago, when NA raised a banhammer and punished thousand of people for using 3rd party apps.
This means it is possible to detect those people and i am pretty sure GF is well aware of it.

exploit detecting app wouldn't change much, because i know a few players reported several times a while ago and they havent been banned yet...

kudos for idea Mikuni.

[Neeni]

Well imo it's not only about sending the logs to gameforge so they can ban the cheater because I'm fairly sure they won't just like NCsoft banned one person but for some reason missed 100 other reports.

It'd be good to use just for yourself, I mean to know that the person is cheating, the problem with fraps is... that for example I can't have it switched on all the time because it takes too much bloody space and my pc is spazzing when I record too much and I'm lagging in-game especially during the combat.

People call each other cheaters and baddies in almost every thread on aionsource but they don't have a proof because they simply don't run around with fraps turned on all day long. Having a software that doesn't lag game and you could switch then minimalize and just let it do it's job and look for it when we're unsure about someone would be great at least to me.

[dazrulez]

Mikuni, on 13 March 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

Hi,

Following the success of my popular meter application, I've been thinking about maybe making a sepparate application dedicated solely to catching hackers/cheaters. There is currently some code in the meter dedicated to this (some is off atm in the current build), but it's very limited so that the program stays within safety procedures that don't violate the Aion EULA/terms of use.

Through a separate application it would be possible to catch a whole bigger range of hackers with near 100% accuracy, including glidehack, teleports, no-animation, speed increase, auto-pot and others. Now the issue with this, is that it would rely on directly reading into the client process memory/network data, the same way radar hack and other applications in every mmo out there work.

Given enough interest in this, and keeping in mind you'd be directly breaking the EULA (while still not letting you cheat in any form, no radar map or anything of the sorts), I might start working on something. Would you be willing to use it? Please vote

~ I would develop it with a private Aion server, then pick the memory offsets every patch from dissasembling other hack applications like AionScript.

Why this idea wont work:

Scenario 1

Lets assume Player(A) does 4 skills on Player.B,
Player(B) suddenly has a lag spike of 2 seconds,
4 of Player(A) skills have successfully landed on Player.B at the server already,
Player(B) is waiting to receive this data at his client,
Player(B) lag spikes finishes and they receive all 4 hits at the same time due to the lag spike,

hack detection detected = false positive.

In some scenarios, glide hack detection is possible, but not in all scenarios.

For example, using distance = speed * time calc and assuming the player has glided up from his original location its possible, but gliding down:

Scenario 2

Player(A) is idling,
Player(B) current location is seen by Player(A),
Player(B) has 2sec lag spike as he is gliding down,
Player(B) is still gliding down and changes direction though no update has been made at the server,
Player(B) lag spike finishes and update is made at the server and extreme distance change is seen on Player(A) client in a small amount of time.

glide hack is detected = false positive.

Now the theories i've mentioned are assuming lag spikes, but this is also the case between someone who has a 200ms ping and someone who has a 800ms ping.

Scenario 3

Player(A) ping 800ms, location is sent to server,
server receives packet in 800ms,
server send data to player(B),
Player(B) receives packet in 1000ms and Player(A) location is updated 1second later than Player(B) client.

Teleport hack? = false positive.

Same for 50ms and 100ms, will your application know the ping of the client(A)? possible, will your application know the ping of potential hacker client? impossible.

Scenario 4

Imagine that Player(A) is a good PVPer, and he starts raping Player(B),
Player(B) just had somebody start downloading on the same network as he is and he doesn't actually notice that his ping was spiking and by the time he's dead and checks his ping, the other person on his network has finished downloading. So Player(B) ping is back to normal.

Your app detects attack speed hacks were used = false positive.

(which by the way, on official servers, the servers only allow a +- amount of attack speed due to latency and each skill has a timer which is calculated on the server not the client. An actual attack speed hack is actually almost useless on official servers due to this restriction)

So, with your detection methods, there would still be people screaming hacks at people who are not using hacks and there would be more false positives detected than actual hacks detected (guaranteed).

Note.
This post is directed at Mikuni, as I guess that he will understand all of what i've said. So i don't expect to see any reply's saying that i'm talking crap and you've seen the hacks of attack speed etc, unless you understand how client > server topologies actually work.

Edit:
Oh and lets not forget that you are still asking all users of it to break the terms and use of the client..

Edit2:
I'm not saying that the idea is bad (catching hackers), It's just your idea wont work and there WILL be more false positives than actual hackers and btw, I like your damage meter.

This post has been edited by dazrulez: 13 March 2012 - 09:37 PM

[Mikuni]

Obviously there is some margin for error so certain thresholds should be established, but most often the leaps are more than apparent like where a little lag spike can't possibly cause it (besides the player usually noticing the spikes due to skill delays/warping).

Other detections could include players suspiciously following you while in hide, typical pre-programmed skill chains, auto-potting at certain hp thresholds and many others. I had a deep look at the AionScript executable; they obfuscated the code but it's pretty easy to undo it and reverse-engineer it as a .net assembly, found lots of interesting stuff, it's really nyerked up how NC never cared to implement basic measures against this kind of crap.

[Shescoldblooded]

This program will let anyone that loses a fight say the other person is hacking.

[dazrulez]

Mikuni, on 13 March 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

Obviously there is some margin for error so certain thresholds should be established, but most often the leaps are more than apparent like where a little lag spike can't possibly cause it (besides the player usually noticing the spikes due to skill delays/warping).

Other detections could include players suspiciously following you while in hide, typical pre-programmed skill chains, auto-potting at certain hp thresholds and many others. I had a deep look at the AionScript executable; they obfuscated the code but it's pretty easy to undo it and reverse-engineer it as a .net assembly, found lots of interesting stuff, it's really nyerked up how NC never cared to implement basic measures against this kind of crap.

As I said, in some scenarios glide hacks can be detected. But for as many scenarios you can think of will detect hackers, you will also detect people who arn't hacking, there would be similar scenarios just like that video you linked, where the player actually isn't cheating.

Auto potting wont work, because of latency issues, you will never have an exact reading of HP, time it takes to pot, and the fact it could be a threshold of 30% HP for the auto pot.. player is damaged to from 50% to 20% and he pots, next time he is damaged from 40% to 25% and pots.. now tell me how any normal player that is a decent PVPer wouldn't pot under those circumstances also, your only detection or proof of auto pot would be the time it takes when hp has reduced to the time it takes to pot, which doesn't prove that a player may have also used the pot at 50% but was damaged to 20% when he actually got around to clicking the pot so it seems instant etc,

To make this more accurate you would be taking multiple samples of similar situations. This doesn't prove that they are auto potting, it only increases the probability that they are..

[Mikuni]

Yep, all things must be considered ofc. If I was to start this project I'll need a lot of sampling for such scenarios, but as I said, atm it's just an idea where I'd like to hear some feedback and general thoughts

(the guy in the video got banned btw) (well, his asmo account, cause he still plays on another one even though NC was aware of it).

This post has been edited by Mikuni: 13 March 2012 - 10:41 PM

[Puma20]

Mikuni, on 13 March 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

Yep, all things must be considered ofc. If I was to start this project I'll need a lot of sampling for such scenarios, but as I said, atm it's just an idea where I'd like to hear some feedback and general thoughts

(the guy in the video got banned btw) (well, his asmo account, cause he still plays on another one even though NC was aware of it).

You say all this must be considered, but yet you ignored every person who told you the same/similiar things on other threads.

And that the whole chatlog thingy cant work correctly is kinda prooven for me, since you were telling me for more than a one year : "you using this, you using that, you will get banned etc.."
But at least now i know where this comes from. In the past i thought u were just another random hater, now i know at least that your problem was/is that you think that chatlog works correctly. (Dazrulez mentioned already why and what causes problems)

My thought about such an APP? :
No need , a working brain is the best hack detection app you can have.

[cristal0]

dazrulez, on 13 March 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

Why this idea wont work:

Scenario 1

Lets assume Player(A) does 4 skills on Player.B,
Player(B) suddenly has a lag spike of 2 seconds,
4 of Player(A) skills have successfully landed on Player.B at the server already,
Player(B) is waiting to receive this data at his client,
Player(B) lag spikes finishes and they receive all 4 hits at the same time due to the lag spike,

hack detection detected = false positive.

In some scenarios, glide hack detection is possible, but not in all scenarios.

For example, using distance = speed * time calc and assuming the player has glided up from his original location its possible, but gliding down:

Scenario 2

Player(A) is idling,
Player(B) current location is seen by Player(A),
Player(B) has 2sec lag spike as he is gliding down,
Player(B) is still gliding down and changes direction though no update has been made at the server,
Player(B) lag spike finishes and update is made at the server and extreme distance change is seen on Player(A) client in a small amount of time.

glide hack is detected = false positive.

Now the theories i've mentioned are assuming lag spikes, but this is also the case between someone who has a 200ms ping and someone who has a 800ms ping.

Scenario 3

Player(A) ping 800ms, location is sent to server,
server receives packet in 800ms,
server send data to player(B),
Player(B) receives packet in 1000ms and Player(A) location is updated 1second later than Player(B) client.

Teleport hack? = false positive.

Same for 50ms and 100ms, will your application know the ping of the client(A)? possible, will your application know the ping of potential hacker client? impossible.

Scenario 4

Imagine that Player(A) is a good PVPer, and he starts raping Player(B),
Player(B) just had somebody start downloading on the same network as he is and he doesn't actually notice that his ping was spiking and by the time he's dead and checks his ping, the other person on his network has finished downloading. So Player(B) ping is back to normal.

Your app detects attack speed hacks were used = false positive.

(which by the way, on official servers, the servers only allow a +- amount of attack speed due to latency and each skill has a timer which is calculated on the server not the client. An actual attack speed hack is actually almost useless on official servers due to this restriction)

So, with your detection methods, there would still be people screaming hacks at people who are not using hacks and there would be more false positives detected than actual hacks detected (guaranteed).

Note.
This post is directed at Mikuni, as I guess that he will understand all of what i've said. So i don't expect to see any reply's saying that i'm talking crap and you've seen the hacks of attack speed etc, unless you understand how client > server topologies actually work.

Edit:
Oh and lets not forget that you are still asking all users of it to break the terms and use of the client..

Edit2:
I'm not saying that the idea is bad (catching hackers), It's just your idea wont work and there WILL be more false positives than actual hackers and btw, I like your damage meter.

you only assume that someone is lagging and its not everyones problem

besides when you get similar results from one person you can say its not internet connection related

[dazrulez]

cristal0, on 14 March 2012 - 04:31 AM, said:

you only assume that someone is lagging and its not everyones problem

besides when you get similar results from one person you can say its not internet connection related

Seriously? did you read all of what I wrote?

You (Client A) > server > other guy (Client B)

What if (Client B) always has lag spikes? nothing to do with your connection.

and i said lag spikes was just a simple example, a ping of 50ms of 1 guy and 100ms other the other guy is plenty enough to vary results of such an application.

I don't even know why i'm replying to you since you're clearly clueless and didn't even bother to read what I wrote..

This post has been edited by dazrulez: 14 March 2012 - 06:05 AM

[Hummingbird]

Raiya, on 13 March 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Might be worth trying it out seems to be alot of hacking goin on atm mainly laghacks (you have 40ms and sleep/silence a target 1st yet they get sleepstorm/sleep arrow etc off anyways).

That would be called a reflex, not a 'laghack'

[tamagoyaki]

i change my vote. go do it guy.

[Elliott]

IF you are going break the rules, atleast do it via hax rather than hax prevention

moral backbone? noty

[cristal0]

dazrulez, on 14 March 2012 - 05:33 AM, said:

Seriously? did you read all of what I wrote?

You (Client A) > server > other guy (Client B)

What if (Client B) always has lag spikes? nothing to do with your connection.

and i said lag spikes was just a simple example, a ping of 50ms of 1 guy and 100ms other the other guy is plenty enough to vary results of such an application.

I don't even know why i'm replying to you since you're clearly clueless and didn't even bother to read what I wrote..

yes i have read it (ow w8 that post is about lagging too...)

Quote

Why this idea wont work:

Scenario 1

whining about lags

Scenario 2

whining about lags

Scenario 3

whining about lags

Scenario 4

whining about lags

[tamagoyaki]

Hummingbird, on 14 March 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

That would be called a reflex, not a 'laghack'

neither

could anyone kindly explain and give an example of a lag hack?

nvm. googled.

[cezi]

Ok you catch a cheater, you report them and say your program found them. You'll get banned for breaking the EULA too, and if you pretend you just knew then they won't act on it probably and you'll get no where. It's too risky for anyone good imo, people get reported falsely too much and if they were using this, they'd get banned.