[jflanden]

In order for a game to get better, you need to point out/discuss it's flaws and not be blind to them. This will ONLY be about Aion's END-GAME PVP.

NOTE: [U]If you can provide any accurate/factual information pertaining to this thread OR BETTER Aion Videos, I WILL change my main post with them as long as they are revelant.[/U]

I will break this down into 3 categories to make this easy to read
[U]1[/U].RNG(Random Number Generator)
[U]2[/U].Simplicity
[U]3[/U].Broken

[U]1.RNG:[/U]

The game should not rely on how lucky you are but instead rely on how good of a player you are.


-You have RNG CC/Snares durations and RNG even decides if the CC/Snare lands in the first place.

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[U]Don't believe me?[/U]
Counterslash IV
Upon success of Evasion, inflicts 210~214 physical damage on the target and stuns it temporarily at a certain rate(This refers to the stun successfully landing or not.).

Ambush V
Moves to the back of a target within a 20m radius to inflict 168~172 physical damage, and stuns it at a certain rate.

Pattern Explosion IV
Erases the Pattern engraved on a target within a 10m radius up to the level of 1 and sets it to burst, damaging and stunning the target.
Damage level and stunning probability vary depending on the Pattern level.

Snare Arrow IV
Attacks the legs of a target within a 0m radius to inflict 177~181 physical damage on it. The target's movement speed is reduced for 4~16 sec.(WTF? That's a pretty big gap to leave up to the dice roll.)
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This makes fights VERY random. The game should not rely on how lucky you are but instead rely on how good of a player you are. If the game was designed without RNG on CC, it would be much more skill-based.

[U]Good example of a game that fixed a problem like this:[/U] WoW used to have random stuns, the way they fixed this was make stuns are 100% chance to land, NOTHING does random stuns, give them diminishing returns(more than one stun used within a short time gets halved, quartered, then immune.) , and instead of giving players resistance against stuns, they gave players ways to reduce the DURATION of the stuns.

-Melee attacks RANDOMLY interrupt spell casts.

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[U]Don't believe me? [/U]
Go attack an enemy casting a spell, there is a random chance that they will stop and it will say "You have interrupted a spell cast".
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This is just another way to let the RNG gods decide the outcome of fights. Very bad decision to let this go through. Having to stack a specific stat to counter RNG isn't a viable solution, it needs to be removed from the game.

[U]Good example of a game that fixed a problem like this:[/U] WoW has a thing called Spell Pushback:

When casting a spell: The first and second hit will add .5 secs each to the cast time.
All hits after the second will have no effect.

When channelling a spell: The first and second hit reduce current duration by 25% of total duration each.
All hits after the second will have no effect.

WoW also gives players spell interrupts that you actually need to TIME yourself. Let's look at one:

Kick
Interrupts spellcasting and prevents any spell in that school from being cast for 5 sec.

Not only interrupts a spell, but rewards you with silencing your enemy. Because of this, Casters have a tactic called "Spell Juking", where you can cast a spell then move and cancel your spell in an attempt to BAIT your enemy's spell interrupt, out-smarting your enemy.


-Combos get interrupted by earlier combo steps RANDOMLY missing.

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[U]Don't believe me? [/U]
Try using a combo after part of the combo misses, it doesn't work.
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Everyone has heard of parry/dodging abilities, right? Well this is COMPLETELY out of your control in Aion. This type of RNG gives luckier players a MAJOR advantage. It's enough that your attack missed randomly but it completely screws your ENTIRE combo chain??? Instead of Combos being a welcomed addition to PvP combat, it's more of a problem than anything because of it allowing RNG to further dictate the winner of fights.

[U]Good example of a game that fixed a problem like this:[/U] In WoW, you cannot parry/dodge unless attacked from the FRONT. In Aion, you have a nifty little feature called AUTO-FACE! Spells also don't randomly resist in WoW, ONLY offensive dispells are resistable which means that if someone has spell resist through talents, it will only work on resist chance against removing damage over time abilities.

[U]2.Simplicity:[/U]

The more simplistic the game is the faster it gets boring. There is a difference between being accessible and the game overall being too easy.

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[U]Don't believe me? [/U]
Watch this video: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf9qmnee8l4"]YouTube - Aion KOR - Assassin Tournament[/ame] What do you see? EVERY Assassin uses the SAME combo of abilities standing STILL:
1. Stun your enemy. 2. PRAY your stuns don't MISS
3. Lift your enemy in the air. 4. PRAY your lift doesn't MISS
5. Finish off your enemy with your attack combos. 6. PRAY your combos don't MISS
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This game basically RELIES on RNG to make the game ANY interesting. Everyone in the video that loses either had their stuns/lift get resisted or didn't click it as fast as their opponent. It doesn't get any more simplistic than that where who ever spams their stuns/lift the fastest wins, goodluck on them not being resisted!

[U]Good example of a game that fixed a problem like this:[/U] This is a Rogue vs Rogue duel video so it can be more easily compared to the Assassin duel video.
Watch this: (sound was sadly removed due to WMG)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m2Kd2Ig_-g"]YouTube - Akrios vs Neilyo[/ame]
What you will see is
-They won't be standing still, movement is extremely important(Not made important through gimmicky buffs.) as you can see they are all over the place.
-You will see amazing twitch reaction/timing of abilities.
-Fights are different, they aren't winning the same way in every fight.
-Controlled CC, stuns/CC don't RANDOMLY resist, if you use a stun, they get stunned.
-Amazing use of COUNTERS. They have vanish that can be used to escape(Can be countered by putting a bleed on the rogue at the cost of losing burst damage and breaking some CCs you can put on them like blind/gouge.) or if timed correctly it can completely NEGATE an ability. Also have PvP trinket, 2min cooldown, to REMOVE CCs on yourself which must be used smartly.

I could not find any other good recent Rogue vs Rogue videos, so if you want something newer than that, here:
Arena/Duels Rogue PvP:
Eviscerate Arenas Volume VI Rogue-Rogue

Want to compare caster simplicity? Watch as this caster uses the SAME spells rotation/Tactics in EVERY fight. Where is the strategy/twitch reaction/good timing of spells?
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAAxr8F30xY"]YouTube - Aion - PvP ~ lvl 45 Sorcerer solo[/ame]

Now in comparison watch
Warlock PvP: (click name if stream embed doesn't work.)
[ame=http://www.wegame.com/watch/Mysteries_5_This_is_now/]Mysteries 5 - This is now[/ame] / Mysteries 5 - This is now By Mysteries - World of Warcraft Movies (Both links are same video, different stream sites though for whatever you prefer.)

Great twitch reaction, precision, and use of abilities at the right time in order to come out on top. Your average MMO player CANNOT play at this level.

Or you can watch
Mage PvP: (click name if stream embed doesn't work.)
[ame=http://www.wegame.com/watch/Decus_II_Nukem_Frost_Fire_World_BG_PvP/]Decus (II) Nukem - Frost & Fire World / BG PvP[/ame] / Decus (II) Nukem - Frost & Fire World PvP By naitsirk - World of Warcraft Movies (Both links are same video, different stream sites though for whatever you prefer.)

3.Broken:

Not talking about your typical class unbalances here because all MMOs suffer from that though some games are more balanced than others so I will not be talking about Class imbalances but instead talk about the game overall.


-Abilties on MAJORLY long cooldowns ranging up all the way to 1hour.

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Don't believe me?
Escape I - Skills - Aion team getting wrecked? just use this every 30MINUTES.

Someone owning you? That's okay, you can nearly one-shot them when your 1HOUR abilities are off cooldown, Triniel?s Dirk I - Skills - Aion and Lumiel's Wrath I - Skills - Aion for example
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Having cooldowns is a good thing, it's a way to balance abilities better than others and forces you to use/time them wisely. Cooldowns only become a problem once these become so insanely long that instead of being a part of your character's playstyle, they are more for the overpoweredness of the ability you only use to gain an immediate advantage/change the tide of the battle.

Good example of a game that fixed a problem like this: WoW lowered the cooldowns of overpowered abilities and balanced them so they can actually be a part of your playstyle.

Example:
Recklessness
Special ability attacks have an additional 100% chance to critically hit but all damage taken is increased by 20%. Lasts 12 sec.
30 MINUTE COOLDOWN

turns into

Recklessness
Your next 3 special ability attacks have an additional 100% to critically hit but all damage taken is increased by 20%. Lasts 12 sec.
5 MINUTE COOLDOWN


-Consumables, consumables, and more consumables!

________________________________________________
Don't believe me?
+100 Attack Power Battery - Items - Aion stack these and you can completely destroy someone in a fight. This should ONLY be allowed in PvE, what are they thinking?

Greater Running Scroll - Items - Aion This is a must have. 20% speed for 5minutes, WTF? Don't forget http://www.aionarmor...px?id=164000079 for Flight Speed!

Greater Courage Scroll - Items - Aion What DPSer wouldn't be using this all the time?

Greater Healing Potion - Items - Aion You cannot be serious... A potion which removes CC???
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This is absolutely terrible, I should not make sure that I FARM consumables before I want to PvP. Nerf or completely remove consumables like these, that is just ridiculous. If you want to better balance overpowered items like them, make them non-limited items that you don't lose after using, put cooldowns on them, and lower the duration to be MUCH lower because 5 minutes is crazy.


Good example of a game that fixed a problem like this: WoW has

1. Disallowed the use of consumables in the Arena, the place you gain the best rewards.

2. Puts a debuff on your character that doesn't allow you to use another consumable until you leave combat.

3. Any buffs outside of boosting damage, health, or healing is reduced to at most a 30second buff.

5. Removed overpowered consumables

6. Buffs of the same type do NOT stack.


-Gaining the best rewards in the Abyss requires nearly giving up your life.

________________________________________________
Don't believe me?
Read some interviews of top Abyss Players on Read What They Read, See What I See

Quote

Q. How much do you play in Abyss?

I basically live there. I can?t sleep until I?ve gotten 20k points. (laughs)

I spend most of the day pvping in Abyss.

Over 12 hours.

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MMOs should be a break from real life, not a SUBSTITUTE. The game should reward successful players, not ones who can play the game more.

Good example of a game that fixed a problem like this: In WoW, 3 years ago, they used to have a nasty grind like this called the "High Warlord/Grand Marshal Grind", just like in Aion, the player who plays the most gains the highest rank and the better rewards.

They fixed this by removing the ranking system and added an honor price to SOME of the best gear. You get honor from doing battlegrounds/world pvp.

To get the REST(MOST) of the gear, you must do it through being successful in Arena. No, it isn't about gaining ranks or grinding Arena Points, it is all about competing directly with other teams and every time you won a game, you gained Arena rating and everytime you lost a game, you lost Arena rating. The raitings scale depending what rating your enemy's. Gear/Weps have a Rating requirement and you gain Arena points to buy them at the end of the week. This way good players can play WoW Arena for only 1-2hours a week if they wanted to, as long as they were successful, they could gain the best rewards(which only a SMALL % have.). Good players got the best gear/weps, bad players with no life can't endlessly play to get the best rewards.


-Guardian transformations. Is this real or a Joke?

________________________________________________
Don't believe me?
Video: ??? ??!HP16? ???? ????? ?? - AION ??
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Abyss ranking system is flawed enough to give the best rewards to players who have no life. Allowing these players to turn into MEGATRON and soloing countless players effortlessly? What were the Aion devs thinking!?

Have no life? Aion is your dream game because it will reward you by allowing you to destroy EVERYONE in game.

They need to make this more of some kind of group effort of some kind where randomly a few players can gain this transformation from each faction by completing some sort of big objective, SOMETHING to allow players that actually have a life to be able to transform if they are going to have this in the game. Am I saying to just be easy mode and give to whoever to make everyone happy? No, you can make it actually based on player SKILL, not how long they play the game.

Good example of a game that fixed a problem like this: No game has had something as messed up as this,that I know of, ESPECIALLY in a reward system that rewards players for having no life.


I repeat,
NOTE: If you can provide any accurate/factual information pertaining to this thread OR BETTER Aion Videos, I WILL change my main post with them as long as they are RELEVANT.

This post has been edited by jflanden: 22 July 2009 - 04:36 AM

[Jetlag]

WoW's downfall: Getting boring!

Aion's downfall: Not like WoW!

[Faythung]

There seems to be a simple fact about Aion,as well as it is a very good game from what i've played,people seem to like it due to it not being like WoW.The game isn't even released in NA/EU yet and already i've seen tons of these threads appear comparing Aion to other MMO's,which is fine but don't compare them to the extent that all you're doing is constantly finding flaws which in your opinion other games don't have.Give the game time before you condemn it,WoW was released years ago and while new games have the luxury of being able to take ideas that weren't around all those years ago it's still a new game,with it's own trend and it's own play style,i say let Aion be Aion.

[Killer]

jflanden said:

-Consumables, consumables, and more consumables!

________________________________________________
Don't believe me?
+100 Attack Power Battery - Items - Aion stack these and you can completely destroy someone in a fight. This should ONLY be allowed in PvE, what are they thinking?

Greater Running Scroll - Items - Aion This is a must have. 20% speed for 5minutes, WTF? Don't forget Greater Raging Wind Scroll - Items - Aion for Flight Speed!

Greater Courage Scroll - Items - Aion What DPSer wouldn't be using this all the time?

Greater Healing Potion - Items - Aion You cannot be serious... A potion which removes CC???
________________________________________________

Let's seeeee... Assassin get a skill at.. hmmm... what lvl 20 that gives them 20% speed till all there MP is gone. The dps scroll there are manastones for that too.... The healing pot has like a 2 min cool down if I remember right.... The powershards should be for both PvP and PvE.. and a little lass QQ next time would be nice too.

[jmp003]

WoW pvp was fun when you had to grind.

Now it's so easy a blind retard could be fully epiced.

Arena?Hush Arena is most homo pvp in any game only way to do good is if you're one of the 3 amazing OP classes.:pow:

[jflanden]

Killer 842 said:

Let's seeeee... Assassin get a skill at.. hmmm... what lvl 20 that gives them 20% speed till all there MP is gone. The dps scroll there are manastones for that too.... The healing pot has like a 2 min cool down if I remember right.... The powershards should be for both PvP and PvE.. and a little lass QQ next time would be nice too.

So it's acceptable to give everyone a Class's core ability through a 5minute buff scroll which is basically mandatory to use in PvP?

[Ryuzaki]

Yep.

I am a top WoW player too :) I killed someone in Arena... z0mg!

[Killer]

jflanden said:

So it's acceptable to give everyone a Class's core ability through a 5minute buff scroll which is basically mandatory to use in PvP?

Will seeing how a assassin can use the scroll to they will have 40%... and not 20%

[Aryan]

OP just STFU please. All you do is bitch and complain about how this game's mechanics are not like WoWs and how the WoW way is the ONLY way.

Let the game mature and let the community decide on whats right or wrong. Fair enough, you've had your say. Too bad no one here agrees with it.

Someon lock this thread please.:sigh:

[Birdy Cephon Altera]

That lock in the vid sure threw around a lot of bombs.

[nemuandkirino]

Jetlag said:

WoW's downfall: Getting boring!

Aion's downfall: Not like WoW!

So what you're saying is that Aion's downfall will be that it isn't boring? :jealous: Yearh, I'll be happy to join that "sinking ship" :love:

[Chob]

This guy puts a lot of efforts. I think he is a WoW crusader or something like that

[jflanden]

Ryuzaki said:

This will just be another flame fest thread made by our top WoW player.

BTW: Give him + rep, because he obviously wants - rep.

If you read the last thread you would know that I didn't write the review nor referred to myself as a top WoW player.

[m0rs]

Very good post OP. A game based around PvP and want to be famous for it, shouldn't rely on RNG and consumables the way that Aion does. Furthermore I do think the 1v1 gameplay is dull, you do your premade comboes, tactical movement wont benefit you at all as your opponent has autoface (due to 'lol click to move'), and if your stuns hit, you probably win. Flame on, I couldn't care less for your 'go back to wow' comments, but I hope we can get a good discussion going :)

[Dariuz]

I think you've over-thought this a little. The latest patches will fix the issues people have brought up. WoW is a 5 year old game, stop acting like a game that's just launching is gonna have ALL BASES COVERED.

I guarantee you that generally everyone in WoW uses the same stupid skills over and over again in every fight. Every class in that game eventually becomes about a 5 button class. Overly critical.

[Eulolia]

m0rs said:

Very good post OP. A game based around PvP and want to be famous for it, shouldn't rely on RNG and consumables the way that Aion does. Furthermore I do think the 1v1 gameplay is dull, you do your premade comboes, tactical movement wont benefit you at all as your opponent has autoface (due to 'lol click to move'), and if your stuns hit, you probably win. Flame on, I couldn't care less for your 'go back to wow' comments, but I hope we can get a good discussion going :)

1) RNG - Is fixed in 1.5 mostly, of course some RNG element remains in every game though.

2) Consumables - I don't see what's wrong with consumables? Surely, if anybody can use them, they're balanced. Explain.

3) WoW is terrible for PvP, especially since they tried to balance it around 2v2 arena. Even everybody on the WoW forums admits it's terrible.

This post has been edited by Eulolia: 10 July 2009 - 03:56 AM

[Chob]

m0rs said:

Furthermore I do think the 1v1 gameplay is dull

It isn't 1vs1 based, you WoW nublet.
Go play your solo MMO.

[Ryuzaki]

Eulolia said:

1) RNG - Is fixed in 1.5 mostly, of course some RNG element remains in every game though.

Aha, not in WoW. As a top WoW player our OP knows how awes00ome WoW is.
The raids are so hard, but our OP is lucky to be so skilled.

[lash]

stop bothering. You're trying to convine a forum filled with aion fanatics with massive hatred for WoW that their game is bad. Not gonna work.

games differ from each other, play what you like

[jflanden]

Eulolia said:

1) RNG - Is fixed in 1.5 mostly, of course some RNG element remains in every game though.

2) Consumables - I don't see what's wrong with consumables? Surely, if anybody can use them, they're balanced. Explain.

1. Where in 1.5 does it say RNG is reduced?

2. Consumables is just another un-needed grind added to the game. Most people don't want to feel like they NEED to farm consumables before enjoying PvP.