[BahamutKaiser]

AznKenshin said:

I beg to differ. In my opinion -- regardless of whether this skill is overpowered or not -- Asmodians outnumber the Elyos in terms of DP strength. See this page. The fact that Asmodian DP descriptions are two times longer than the Elyos counterparts should be initially overwhelming. However, the Asmodians seem to have much better DPs in comparison to their rivals.

Remember, this is entirely based on my opinion. You can criticize me mercilessly if you wish.

BTW I don't like quotes, but it is hard to keep context with so much repeatative misunderstanding flying about.

I think people assume that Asmodian Scout is better than Elyos Scout, or vice versa, which is where people say that Asmodian or Elyos have clearly better DP, on a basis of 2/1. This is simply a matter of context and perception. Firstly, we can only play on wording unless someone has tested the DPs. Secondly, the word increase and 100% clearly explain that your capability in such doubles. What is 100% increase of 2? These contextual basis of power, mean that it could be a meaningless double of an ineffective property, or it could mean a very high rate for an already effective or high property.

Your basically weighing what is clearly physical invincibility, against really high overall defense. Without context as too how valuable 100 magic resistance increase is, or how effective those increased by percent values are, there is no clear cut winner.

And since they have started to change them around, and many of them are horribly overdone or even underdone, it is pretty obvious that these are abilities showcased outside of their typical aquisition level, and that there will be scaling power of a relative, and hopefully fair nature. I would just let this rest til we have more information.

[osric]

I heard the the Elyos cleric DP shield makes you invincible for a year and a half. :p

This post has been edited by osric: 21 April 2008 - 12:27 PM
Reason for edit: my left index finger fails to work at times... lots of times

[Irisviel]

Lucio said:

The cleric elyos have a shield that absorbs 10000 damage at 100% rate when u use the cleric's DP skill. Compared to the asmo's cleric of healing 150 damage every 3 seconds for 30 seconds as a DP skill. Its a bit OP is there any way that im interpreting this incorrectly and its actually balanced?

well, it is suppose to be cleric's life saver and ultimate skill but funny thing is, it can be dispelled by spiritmaster's pet. spiritmaster is op seriously.

[Drache]

I really dont know why i thouht it was 10. It still doesn't sound overly OP.

[Ipmia]

i have a preference for the HOT , specially if it stacks with cleric hot :p

[Xemnas]

i DID see a youtube video somewhere of gladiators doing around 1k a hit, some even crit for 2k+. Soooooo its viable. IMO:p

[Ayron]

I'd rather take the shield personally but I bet they'll change it before release anyhow.

[BahamutKaiser]

Drache said:

I really dont know why i thouht it was 10. It still doesn't sound overly OP.

It is entirely overpowered. The ability to return 1500 health slowly over a period of 30 seconds, at 150 every 3 seconds, vs the ability to block out the next 10000 points of damage at a maximum of 2000 of a single hit, not limited to a certain number of hits, for the same period of time is absolutely OP.

Health return only helps if your already negotiating damage, otherwise it fills over, being useless, and starting a slow heal will not save you from a singnificant threat, nor even make a serious impact, 1500 health over 30 seconds sounds like a Gladiators recovery ability, or even a normal healing spell.

Intercepting the next 10000 damage, at a cap of 2000 from a single hit, will mean that most hits will not harm you, and your 10000 damage into the green before you even take damage from attacks, unless the foe can outdamage 2000 points significantly enough to harm you, in which case only a newb would not be able to counteract damage taken with heals.

There just isn't any way shape or form where gradual healing netting less than 1/6 of the protection of it's competator for the same amount of time is competative.

Firstly, they Elyos preist DP would have to activate each second, instead of every 3 seconds, in order to still fall short of the amount of healing needed to match the Asmodian equivalents DP. Secondly, the damage threshold per hit on the Asmodian protection skill could be reduced down to 500 or 1000, still leaving it superior to the Elyos, because it is easier to intercept damage than to counteract it with healing. And Thirdly, they could cut the duration of the Asmodian DP down, or make it only castable on an ally beside the caster, to even be fairly simular in potency.

But as I mentioned, I can't imagine that this would be a serious equivalent. Rather, they may have been testing vastly dissimular DP options, or trying to create a system of advantages and disadvantages between different race + class combinations, or this may actually be fair in context to available abilities beyond these which priest typically employ, but there is absolutely no fair, direct comparison between the two in power, at all.

[Zyuu]

Ipmia said:

i have a preference for the HOT , specially if it stacks with cleric hot :p

Currently the HoT spell I have in the beta on my cleric is self only. Might be more later though. No time to play right now.

[Ipmia]

Zyuu said:

Currently the HoT spell I have in the beta on my cleric is self only. Might be more later though. No time to play right now.

but does it stack with DP hot ? can you have both of them on you at same time ?

[TwiTCh]

cleric has low armour and probably low hp so a Boss or group of DD's targets a Cleric with DP and they Sheild themselves for a few seconds until help arrives.
My guess is the Cleric cant put out as much damage in 30 seconds as their opponent so its a way for a DP Cleric to get the edge. And this isnt just a common skill you have to be in DP so its purely 100% situational

Its like the 2 hour specials in FFXI

[Calindor]

My guess is if a cleric puts out any damge in a party pvp his team will die.

[calliopi]

Think people are forgetting that these are both DP skills anyhow. So its not as if this is something either race can routinely toss out. How long does it take to generate the DP needed to use either of the skills?

In FFXI we had skills that could only be used once per hour. White Mages had benediction which healed the entire party to full. Can only be used once an hour though so it wasn't OP. Since DP takes combat to generate, I doubt that these skills will be easy to use in group play as apposed to solo'ing.

[Endrance]

calliopi said:

Think people are forgetting that these are both DP skills anyhow. So its not as if this is something either race can routinely toss out. How long does it take to generate the DP needed to use either of the skills?

In FFXI we had skills that could only be used once per hour. White Mages had benediction which healed the entire party to full. Can only be used once an hour though so it wasn't OP. Since DP takes combat to generate, I doubt that these skills will be easy to use in group play as apposed to solo'ing.

They were usable every two hours, not one. Also, FFXI was a PvE balanced game, not PvP (entirely different thing). And some of those 2 hours were overpowered and some were just crappy. Mighty Strikes of Warriors or NINs Mijin Gakure sucked balls compared to MNKs Hundred Fists, RDMs Chainspell or PLDs Invincible.
And when I did PvP in FFXI, there was simply no job that could beat a skilled RDM.

This post has been edited by Endrance: 11 May 2008 - 04:13 PM

[Otium]

Calindor said:

My guess is if a cleric puts out any damge in a party pvp his team will die.

When certain people want to do stuff they are not meant to do, things can't be good.

[Zanny]

Would be interesting if you could purge the shield through dispells or insta-break it with unholy damage of some sort. You know, counter-abilities.... unheard of skill based monstrosities!

[Faisal]

there should be some kind of thing to break that shield, or as we did hear before a very low time limit. otherwise its just not fair ^_^

[Endrance]

"Q: How is the planned balancing being carried out?
A: Few games are able to fully balance all their classes, WoW is no exception. The main focus now is to ensure that all classes will be able to play smoothly throughout the game. Corrections will continuously be carried out and complete balancing is only expected during the official open beta.
The DP system is not meant for a one-hit kill during PvP but is to allow stronger and cooler attacks when dealing with mobs."

Hmm...

[danstaff]

Endrance said:

They were usable every two hours, not one. Also, FFXI was a PvE balanced game, not PvP (entirely different thing). And some of those 2 hours were overpowered and some were just crappy....

Yea, itll be interesting to see how things play out. Looks like some classes may be able to xfer their DP to a single target? so we may see DP skills used more often in pvp if a certain class has an "OP" pvp skill.

This post has been edited by danstaff: 12 May 2008 - 12:55 PM

[BahamutKaiser]

FFXI was never balanced worth a lick, not even a lick balanced. The entire combat system in FFXI was a failure.