[Lycanor]

The problem with WoW when it came out was it combined the battle.net folks and the older MMO players. Now, being as truthful as possible, there were quite a few morons in MMO games, but you'd have to go a long way to find one. I know for a fact there were A LOT of jerks in battle.net. What we got was a toxic mixture of jerks and morons who started making blanket statements about everything mmo related like it was law. One of these laws was RP'ers are carebears and don't PVP.

I enjoy these misconceptions tho. Makes it easier to stomp on their faces when the pvp starts.

I'm a firm believer that WoW took away the underground feeling of MMOs and turned them into your local daycare center.

Just my opinion.

[augustgrace]

Eldaran said:

I know I'm labeled as a hater, but I seriously think because WoW pulled in a few million other people who didn't give a **** about this genre of games before, that it has watered down the community that used to populate these types of games. Games like Everquest, Ultima Online, Asherons Call, Star Wars Galaxies, and a few others were full of roleplayers who also (with the exception of EQ) could handle themselves in PvP.

I largely agree with the above statement, but the hatred directed towards roleplayers goes back at least as far as DAoC. DAoC was the first time I heard the terms carebear or l33t, and there was quite a bit of vitriol between those who identified with those terms. I don't really recall any issues in UO or EQ.

[Grim Faust]

augustgrace said:

I don't really recall any issues in UO or EQ.

In UO, the partitioning of all shards resulting in Felucca and Trammel was the birth of the term 'trammies', which people later also attached the moniker 'carebears' to these players. Players couldn't be harmed by other players in Trammel, so that's where all the Non-Pvper's hid and hoarded resources and crawled dungeons. Thus began a very deep seeded hate between RP'ers and the smack talking PvP'ers. The PvP'ers couldn't kill the trammiers, so they did the next best thing, flame wars.

This post has been edited by Grim Faust: 22 September 2009 - 04:52 PM

[Goomba1681]

I have thought about this for a while, what do you really consider roleplaying in the context of this game. Can someone who is really involved in role playing please explain this to me? I have been playing MMOs for quite a while. My first was a game called Gemstone, completely text based. Then I played Ultima Online for quite a while. From what I could tell it is more the game design itself that has taken a large part of the role playing away then the actual player base. Games made pre world of warcraft allowed a greater roleplaying experience because they were rather open ended. To use Ultima Online for example, they gave you characters, classes, and a world. What you did in it was completely up to you. Now when you look at a game like World of Warcraft there is a very strong storyline from your characters begining all the way through to his common direction in endgame play. The same think can be said about Aion. This game is very story driven, and in my opinion, not really open to allow yourself to develop a character for a true roleplaying experience, other than in the context that the game gives you. Another problem I have with roleplayers, is they have a problem with roleplaying when the roleplaying is not favorable to them. Example: In the Asmodian starting area, near the crossing, there is a box guarded by a big cat for one of the quests. While leveling, after finding out that I was on a RP server, I felt like getting into the spirit a bit. Two or three people were fighting this cat while I stealthed in behind them, stole the chest, then danced on top of it with the awesome taunt emote and ran away. I repeated this process with the treasure map, the axe, the mushrooms, the ribbit, and all other things people decided to self impose lines for. My justification was that I am an assassin, kill or be killed, lives by the knife, a theif and cutthroat to the core. If your going to have RP, I believe you must also allow for people who RP evil. If I am wrong in this thinking, please let me know. I am just curious how RP in the context of this game should be applied. To me it just seems you should play your character as it is meant to be played. If your the leader type, roll a templar. If you like being helpful, roll a cleric or a chanter, if you are kind of neutral gladiator, scout, or Spiritmaster, and if you like to dwell on the darker side of the force, go Assassin or Sorcerer. Sorry for the tangents, but I am really bored at work, and wish I was stabbin stuff. If anyone from the RP community can answer my question if you could find one in all that stream of thought, please let me know.

Sincerely

One evil SOB - Goomba

:pow:

[fuzzle]

Actually, I believe there are a lot of people only pretending to be nice, to fit in. It is just like racism as there are a LOT more racist than it appears. They are closet sociopaths, full of hate. Internet gives them the ability to be anonymous. Kids tend to be like this, because they're pushed around all day long - by parent, teachers, other kids. They just want to push back.

But it amazes me that a group of people are knocking RP in a mmoRPg.

[Gedachtnis]

Quote

wall of crit-o-matic

my eyes! My eyes!

-----------------------------

Dear fuzzle,

Is there a chance your fingers might fall off before you post again?

Hoping in Minnesota

This post has been edited by Gedachtnis: 22 September 2009 - 05:17 PM

[Goomba1681]

I am just curious as to what is different betweern RP and normal gameplay in a game like Aion. I still don't understand.

[makeshiftwings]

I think WoW definitely helped spawn the hate just because it became popular enough that it could divide into separate cliques. Back when MMORPG's were a newish thing, everyone there was in the same boat: they were playing an RPG, on a computer, on the internet. And this was considered the height of nerdity by normal people. But as in any sort of hobby, once it gets popular enough, people split into cliques and decide that their clique is "cool" and the other ones are lame. WoW PvPers think they're cool but that PvEers are lame. PvEers think they're cool but RPers are lame. WoW RPers think they're cool but pen and paper RPers are lame. Pen and paper RPers think they're cool but LARPers are lame. LARPers think they're cool but... hmm... well, LARPers generally know they're at the bottom of the RPG coolness ladder.

Of course, if anyone stops to think about it for a second, they'd realize that most of the world still thinks that any sort of sitting in the basement pretending to be a magical elf shooting lightning bolts at someone pretending to be a dwarf is ridiculously lame, and wouldn't think that one person was cooler just because they treat other people that they're playing with like crap. They'd just think you're lame AND a douche.

[Gedachtnis]

Quote

LARPers think they're cool but... hmm... well, LARPers generally know they're at the bottom of the RPG coolness ladder.

Funniest sentence in this thread!

[Vidar]

I'm bored, so I'll elucidate

For the most part, others associate RP'ing with sad basement-dwelling individuals with a lack of real life social skills. This will more than likely always be the case regardless of the current incarnation of the RP'ing population.

Most people don't particularly hate RP'ers, we just don't care for them. We view them in almost the exact same bemused fashion as we would a child telling us about his adventures in Wonderland. It's nonsensical and clashes with the realistic notion that most of us operate under. Which is that we are playing an electronic game to give our minds something to do while we mentally unwind from our day at work/school.

As to the people who actively work against RP'ers, these are sad people who derive pleasure from infuriating others; they don't honestly have a problem with you, they just have a new plaything to torment.

WoW lowered the bar as far as player intelligence, ingenuity and social skills and thus has flooded the MMO market with mouthbreathers who are either to dumb to understand the concept or are so socially inept that their only outlet is to become the jackasses as described above.

To answer your question: probably.

[Liszt]

Vidar said:

I'm bored, so I'll elucidate

For the most part, others associate RP'ing with sad basement-dwelling individuals with a lack of real life social skills. This will more than likely always be the case regardless of the current incarnation of the RP'ing population.

Most people don't particularly hate RP'ers, we just don't care for them. We view them in almost the exact same bemused fashion as we would a child telling us about his adventures in Wonderland. It's nonsensical and clashes with the realistic notion that most of us operate under. Which is that we are playing an electronic game to give our minds something to do while we mentally unwind from our day at work/school.

As to the people who actively work against RP'ers, these are sad people who derive pleasure from infuriating others; they don't honestly have a problem with you, they just have a new plaything to torment.

WoW lowered the bar as far as player intelligence, ingenuity and social skills and thus has flooded the MMO market with mouthbreathers who are either to dumb to understand the concept or are so socially inept that their only outlet is to become the jackasses as described above.

To answer your question: probably.

Exactly this. Some may take this in a condescending tone, but do not. Instead of having to be liquored up or drugged out of our minds to have a good time, some enjoy expanding their creativity/reading/writing/playing piano/etc. Usually,some of the most creative of men (Einstein/Tesla/Nietzsche/Scriabin) are very eccentric. Usually, if what you're doing isn't "the norm" then you're weird.

Rpers express an outlet of their creativity. Yes, many consider "imaginativeness" and "creativity" something to be left behind along with youth, but I beg to differ. The death of an imagination is ultimately the death of a human being and the creation of an "autonom."

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."

Bottom Line: Keep rping and ignore what people say; you will NEVER see eye to eye. Let the others continue with their monotonous existance and don't worry about them.

Now, to come back to the point of this thread:
RP haters existed, no doubt about it. These new kiddies have to distinguish themselves from the nerds, so now the formula is "Ok, it's ALRIGHT to play video games. . . . . . .but if I immerse myself in them . . . THEN and ONLY THEN am I a nerd." As far as wow goes, it only gave them a louder voice =)

[QwertyX]

Lizt... every time I see your sig I have this urge to pull up Danse Macabre on you tube...

Oh and yeah... I was playing Diablo on the old battle net... boy was that a place of hateful 'tards! Made me stop playing online games for um... 9 years. Yes it was that terrible... After a short stint exploring Horizons on a trial I decied I kinda like MMO's so I hem'd and haw'd reading up on all of 'em til I settled on City of Heroes in 2007. Coming up on 3 years in that game on the unofficial RP server Virtue. Then I was Tabula Rasa for less than 6 months and then it closed but I got a Aion beta key (wasn't told about just kinda found it in my account just before the last closed beta and I was sold. So where was I... anyway skipped Wow so I can't say if it will lead to the downfall of western civilization but battle net PEW!

[Liszt]

QwertyX said:

Lizt... every time I see your sig I have this urge to pull up Danse Macabre on you tube...

Oh and yeah... I was playing Diablo on the old battle net... boy was that a place of hateful 'tards! Made me stop playing online games for um... 9 years. Yes it was that terrible... After a short stint exploring Horizons on a trial I decied I kinda like MMO's so I hem'd and haw'd reading up on all of 'em til I settled on City of Heroes in 2007. Coming up on 3 years in that game on the unofficial RP server Virtue. Then I was Tabula Rasa for less than 6 months and then it closed but I got a Aion beta key (wasn't told about just kinda found it in my account just before the last closed beta and I was sold. So where was I... anyway skipped Wow so I can't say if it will lead to the downfall of western civilization but battle net PEW!

Man, why'd you have to go and make me hunt down my Saint-Saens CD. Ah, it's all good, The Aquarium is #2 =)

[Dezuria]

The most populated server in DAoC was a RP server, and the community was great. People didn't flame and insult each other, they worked together.

[dvilTB]

Eldaran said:

I've been playing MMO's since 1998. I don't remember people hating on RP'ers before WoW came out. Even in the beginning of WoW I remember on Argent Dawn, there was a pretty decent community who would either get into roleplaying with you or just not bother with you.

I know I'm labeled as a hater, but I seriously think because WoW pulled in a few million other people who didn't give a **** about this genre of games before, that it has watered down the community that used to populate these types of games. Games like Everquest, Ultima Online, Asherons Call, Star Wars Galaxies, and a few others were full of roleplayers who also (with the exception of EQ) could handle themselves in PvP.

I'm not trying to stir hatred here, but am just looking at what you all might think. I myself played WoW on and off for quite a few years but found myself unable to get immersed in it. It all felt very hollow to me and I lost interest rather frequently.



TL;DR do you think the extra people that were introduced into MMOs with WoW have spawned a legion of people who just want to win at any cost instead of immersing themselves in game?

Damn I wish the question in the title was the question meant to be asked. I said no, but would have rather said yes to the actual question.

[Afka]

When I was younger, RPing didn't exist, it was just something you did to get into the feel of your character. Especially in older games without well defined class roles.

I had this conversation with a buddy a few days ago, how RP hate was just made bad by the widening demographic and influx of dumb kids to online video games.

[Sieda]

I'm not sure I would blame WoW specifically, but I have definitely noticed a change in tone towards RPers happen within the last few years. Even outside of video games, the lack imagination and individual thought I see among people scares the **** out of me.


To make a rather nerdy analogy, it seems like people these days are in such a race to 'hit max level and get their epic gear' (Get rich/famous buy lots of **** and/or fill their lives with what others say they should) that they literally miss the beauty and scope of the game they're playing (aka life).

[Bishop777]

RP in an MMO and get hated on. RP in front of a movie camera and make millions of dollars. :)

RP in essence is playing your character the way you feel he/she would interact in the virual world it exists in. I don't RP but I don't hate on those who do. My first RP experience was AD&D, the pen and paper version. I didn't try to speak in ye olde English when I was playing but I did make decisions based on how I thought the character would respond to things.

I played on the unofficial RP server for LOTRO and it was cool. That game had a community that was more accepting of it. It seemed more of them were mature enough to handle it. Once again, I did not RP there but thought it was cool to go into the Prancing Pony and have people sitting around tables discussing the events of their day in RP, or trying to hook their character up with a hot avatar, lol. It took me a while to get used to it, however. I thought it was strange at first but to each his own.

From what I've seen in the WoW community, the players are just too young or "cool" to let that sort of thing go unpwnt. Some of them obviously are trying very hard to fit in somewhere and don't want to be associated with an MMO social group that gets hated on, regardless of the reason.

I say live and let live. If they aren't disturbing me or my gameplay, so be it. More power to them.

[Bluucandi]

Sieda said:

I'm not sure I would blame WoW specifically, but I have definitely noticed a change in tone towards RPers happen within the last few years. Even outside of video games, the lack imagination and individual thought I see among people scares the **** out of me.


To make a rather nerdy analogy, it seems like people these days are in such a race to 'hit max level and get their epic gear' (Get rich/famous buy lots of **** and/or fill their lives with what others say they should) that they literally miss the beauty and scope of the game they're playing (aka life).

This has been a serious concern of mine as a parent. My child is now grown but I remember being frustrated with the public school system (in the US) and their lack of creative outlets for the children. When I attended school, we went to art and music classes weekly. Everyone did. Your parents didn't have pay special fees and you didn't have to meet a certain criteria. I had the most fun learning in those situations. These days, I don't see many children experiencing that. I see many kids who let the movie and music industries decide what is trendy and acceptable. I see too this fear that stepping out of the crowd to be creative and independent will get you ostracized by your peers in general.

[Eldaran]

Thank you everyone for your responses! I see the poll is pretty even, but I'm not sure why since most of the people in this thread tend to be saying Yes to the question asked. Either way, I really don't understand why people have to hate on RPers. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Like I've said in my original post... some of the best PvPers i've known have been incredibly involved in roleplaying and creating server wide events and all kinds of other things, but these were players who got their MMO roots in Ultima Online.