[Direwolf20]

Hi Everyone!

New player here, just started up a mage, and I've been doing some research on what to do once I hit level 10. I really enjoy CC in most MMO's, and I keep reading conflicting ideas on which path to go. I read that Sorc is the best CC, but then other people are saying SM has the best.

Can someone please break it down for a newbie like me, and explain what the differences are in the CC abilities of Sorc vs. SM?

Thank you in advance,

-Direwolf

[Neacail]

SM is THE CC class. Fear is vastly superior to what is available to the Sorc.

For starters, it doesn't break on damage, some of it debuffs resistances (Sorc's CC buffs them, to prevent instantly nuking a CC'd target). Unlike most games, the target doesn't run around randomly. It runs away from you, so you can get people stuck in walls and such - use your creativity. In total, SM gets 3 Fear spells, one of them being instant. The CD on all of them is relatively long.

Sorc, for most of the game, will have 2 CC spells. Sleep and Curse of Roots. Both of them last the same duration (20 or 25 seconds), but Sleep has a 15 second CD and 2s cast, while CoR has a 30s CD, 1.5s cast. PvP duration is greatly reduced, which, combined with resists, cast time and the fact that they buff elemental resistances and break on damage, makes them rather situational in mass and even group PvP. You can use it to great effect for setting up nukes though (Delayed Blast helps a lot).

[Lorraine]

Alright... I'm the same as you and went for Sorc, but I dislike pet classes and that had A LOT to do with my decision.

First of all it would be useful to know your definiton of CC, some people only include shutdown options into that category, while others think of snares and roots as CC as well... I go for the former.

In terms of complete shutdown the sorc has got it's sleep spells, and the sm it's fears. As Neacail said Sleep gives elemental resistance to the target reducing your next attack's damage. Of course there are ways around this, as in waiting until it's about to finish and time your cast accordingly, or using a delayed blast + inferno so that the delayed blast breaks de sleep before the long cast hits them, but none is really optimal for group play. As a Sorcerer, in group pvp your main CC targets will be the ones you don't want to focus... you're not ccing them to kill them, you're ccing them so you can focus on the one you'd like dead without them disturbing.

SM differs in that fear isn't broken on damage and doesn't make the enemy take less damage from spells... but makes your opponent move away from you. This could be a potential good thing given the proper spacing, but it could also screw your team over if the feared target ends up in a non-optimal place. Again, as the previous poster said, this fear is somewhat controllable, but be aware that you might have to sacrifice your positioning to do so. Overall, even if SM's CC's are somewhat more flexible, the Fear Shriek is probably gonna be used as a survival tool and the rest of their fears as a "I'll CC this guy and let's bring him down" kind of thing, while the Sorc is actually sleeping shutting enemies down to deny them the chance to disturb/heal and then DPS's the feared target (this assuming the team has both a SM and a Sorc in it).

There will obviously be teams that prefer an SM over a Sorc because of being able to burst on the feared targets, and some others that prefer the sorc because of the extra dps/aoe, but I'm expecting most organized groups to try and have both.

Hope that helps.

[Direwolf20]

Awesome, thank you both for the info! That clears things up nicely.

Between the two, which is more often wanted in groups? For PVE and for PVP?

[Lorraine]

PvE it's probably sorc, but there are a lot of us to fill the spots.

PvP groups, if you're talking pug most of them won't care about your class... only sure spot is cleric. If you mean in a guild, both of them will be wanted as long as your guild understands what you bring to the table... still, this one might be a little bit easier as an sm since there aren't as many.

[Nevers]

PvE grouping, definitely sorc. Sleep/Tree/Root is invaluable.

[Theory]

Sorc is for CCing monsters.
SM is for CCing players.

[AVGxAZN]

Theory said:

Sorc is for CCing monsters.
SM is for CCing players.

I'm going to have to disagree with this statement.

Between sleep/CoR/tranqCloud/Sleepstorm, things have little place to run in PVP. The cast time for each is 2s/1.5s/2s/2s and CD's of 15s/30s/30min/2min respectively.

An SM has fear/(if stigma'd)shriek/ instaFear with cast times of 2.5s/1.5s/instant and cooldown times of 30s/1m/5min respectively.

Because there is no diminishing returns on CC's in this game, sorcs can get their CC off in faster succession and in most cases are able to lock a single target down for almost a minute (assuming lvl50 and 3k dp avail). Having their opponent stand still as you beat on their barriors are priceless.

Both mage class CC's serve a distinct purpose for their specific classes. SM's are just less viable for instance CC's because of their fear/run thing. I suppose a fear/root combo would work but keep in mind the 1min CD on root :|

[Socio]

People that say Sorcerer CC is just as good in PvP are full of themselves, and most likely uninformed Sorcerers themselves. Sleep/Tree have shorter cast times and cooldowns, yes. However, they also BREAK ON DAMAGE. That is the biggest thing people fail to realize. In PvP a lot of times in Aion you'll have mobs around, too. Look at Dreadgion runs for instance, which is an important part of end game. Not to mention fortresses. Fear does not break on damage. Whether the damage is done by a player or a mob, thus making it better, period. Not to mention SMs also get Fear Shriek, Body Root, and Sigil of Silence while having an AoE snare too. SMs are the pinnacle of CC in Aion for PvP. Sorcerers however are better CC in general for PvE.

[Vlk]

Sorcerer CC is better for defense (long duration, does break on damage) - Sleep, Tree
Spiritmaster CC is better for offense (short duration, doesnt break on damage) - Fear, Silence

[AVGxAZN]

Vlk said:

Sorcerer CC is better for defense (long duration, does break on damage) - Sleep, Tree
Spiritmaster CC is better for offense (short duration, doesnt break on damage) - Fear, Silence

Lets stop making generalizations like this. It call all be disproved.

Quote

People that say Sorcerer CC is just as good in PvP are full of themselves, and most likely uninformed Sorcerers themselves. Sleep/Tree have shorter cast times and cooldowns, yes. [I]However, they also BREAK ON DAMAGE. That is the biggest thing people fail to realize.[/I'] In PvP a lot of times in Aion you'll have mobs around, too. Look at Dreadgion runs for instance, which is an important part of end game. Not to mention fortresses. Fear does not break on damage. Whether the damage is done by a player or a mob, thus making it better, period. Not to mention SMs also get Fear Shriek, Body Root, and Sigil of Silence while having an AoE snare too. SMs are the pinnacle of CC in Aion for PvP. Sorcerers however are better CC in general for PvE.

And I just made the counter argument in my previous post that we stop the target from running. SM CC's keep em going and going. Yes, my CC's break on dmg but that is only dmg done on the target itself. DMG done on the targets barrier keeps him a tree. Many times, the hardest targets to catch are the sorcs and SM's that have all the snares. I'd rather catch up to him and start the dps train than cc and have to use a snare to stop your "CC".

SM's like you who think sorc CC is not as good as SM CC in pvp are quite ill-informed.

[Socio]

AVGxAZN said:

And I just made the counter argument in my previous post that we stop the target from running. SM CC's keep em going and going. Yes, my CC's break on dmg but that is only dmg done on the target itself. DMG done on the targets barrier keeps him a tree. Many times, the hardest targets to catch are the sorcs and SM's that have all the snares. I'd rather catch up to him and start the dps train than cc and have to use a snare to stop your "CC".

SM's like you who think sorc CC is not as good as SM CC in pvp are quite ill-informed.

My main is a Sorcerer, but I also play an SM. You realize SMs can control their fear, right? Fear is better no matter how hard you try to say otherwise. :p

Oh, and your argument is bad. Not every Sorc goes Sleep Storm as it's ridiculously situational, and not every fight will you have 3k DP or your 30 minute cooldown. Meanwhile a Fear, Fear Shriek, Sigil of Silence/Body Root depending on class, Fear combo works every single fight, and none of it breaks on damage compared to just being able to break through 2 classes Stone Skin while they're CC'd. (Which you do while the person is Feared, anyway so I don't know what point you're trying to make there.) Oh, and that's not including the instant fear or the fact that there is an instant Ice Chain esque knockback for an SM.

AND if you want to include advanced stigmas, Shackle of Vulnerability I - Skills - Aion is basically a CC in itself.

[sakkath]

SM CC is so incredibly superior to Sorc CC in PvP it's not even funny.

In PvE a Sorc has superior CC but SM's are no slouch.

[Sundy]

Err.

In regards to CC only.

Sorc has INFINITELY better, don't know what you guys are smoking.

Root, Sleep, Tree, Nova - rotating these you can CC 1 (melee) player for almost 40 seconds or 2 mobs indefinitely - SM's can't do this.

Fear is a really strong spell/form of CC (in PvP), but in no way does it alone trump all the CC tools Sorcs' possess. Not to mention, Sorc CC's are desirable for any type of grouping: PvP/PvE, which is not always the case for SM's.

So yeah, tldr: Sorcs for CC, hands down.

This post has been edited by Sundy: 13 October 2009 - 10:46 PM

[Tiresias]

I have never once seen a PvE party "LFM SM". I constantly see PvE parties "LFM Sorc".

For PvP it doesn't matter. Everyone has their place. An SM should be near the midlines throwing out CC and DoTs. A Sorc should be on wings making approaches to the backlines to blow up a healer with the assistance of an Assassin; they lead dangerous lives in group PvP as compared to SMs.

[MrTwilliger]

Why has no one mentioned that Fear can't be cured by a CC pot? And a question just to clarify, can a cleric dispel Fear? What about sleep, tree and root?

[MooMooCow]

MrTwilliger said:

Why has no one mentioned that Fear can't be cured by a CC pot? And a question just to clarify, can a cleric dispel Fear? What about sleep, tree and root?

Dispell clears every single debuff that I know of, but I could be wrong.

[sai]

sm, fear makes player run away from cleric (dispeller) harder to dispel than tree

[Lorraine]

MrTwilliger said:

Why has no one mentioned that Fear can't be cured by a CC pot? And a question just to clarify, can a cleric dispel Fear? What about sleep, tree and root?

You can't pot out of sleep and tree either.

And I believe fear can indeed be dispelled.

[Ghost in a shell]

Kids, you are getting this team game wrong. SM and Sorc supplement each other and work great as a team. If you are trying to figure out which one is better, then it depends only on your play style. If you are trying to figure out best PVE or PVP groups, both SM and Sorc have some benefits. Sorc can be more beneficial in PVE groups, while SM don't really need PVE group (easiest elite farmer + increased loot drop chance). On the other hand, if SM slots only PVE stigmas, he can be GREAT for team! Do some research before you answer to this.

When it comes to CC:

SM have better CC for PVP because - it doesn't break on damage, doesn't increase elemental defense and it cannot be potted, while Sorc has better PVE CC because it's important to keep monsters in one place disabled. When used in PVP, sorc and SM together can wreck havoc.

Keep them both in one group and enjoy. Exclude one from group because you don't think you will benefit from them, then go back to kindergarten called WOW.

This post has been edited by Ghost in a shell: 20 October 2009 - 06:40 AM