[Vanash]

I was quite annoyed to discover that the Heal over time potions overwrite our (chanter's at least) HoT spells. I was even more disappointed that our HoT spells overwrite superior HoT pots...

Now I personally prefer HoT pots as you can pop them at the start of a fight if you get an extra mob or something, and they tend to keep you ticking over nicely. Single heal pots generally leave you wanting the CD for a mana pot as you tend to use them later in a fight.

The thing is you can still use a single heal pot, which generally replaces the same HP AND have a Hot running, but you can't have a HoT pot and a cast hot running at the same time..

I know it's not the end of the world, and there's kittens out there that needs hugs and stuff, but I find it VERY irritating that such a mechanic exists in the game :pow:

[Cocowoushi]

It's just one of those things you need to learn to live with. Always double check if the HoT you're throwing on someone is better than the HoT pot they have up. I didn't realize this at first and now I feel guilty for bumping off my Tank's pots.
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[aikorat]

yeez I didn't even know ... tx for sharing :x

[Alilei]

Why would anyone use pots in a group in the first place? I can understand if you are near death and pop an instant heal pot but why the hell would you waste HoT pots when you have a healer? Just seems counterproductive

[Vanash]

Alilei said:

Why would anyone use pots in a group in the first place? I can understand if you are near death and pop an instant heal pot but why the hell would you waste HoT pots when you have a healer? Just seems counterproductive

I think most decent players tend to look after themselves and help out healers when needed. Most tanks are so used to popping pots it becomes second nature during heavy dmg. A HoT pot will continue to mitigate dmg after a heal is received also giving a buffer to subsequent heals.

The other thing to consider is that if people are in small groups of two or three or solo. If my team mate pops a HoT pot and I overwrite it with a cast hot that heals for less it's counter productive.

Also in PvP, it's up to people to react accordingly, if they are getting low on hp they may be OOR of the healer, or the healer could be cc'd.

This obviously isn't a thread to advocate the use of pots, but those that don't use them even if they do have a healer or if they are one hit from death, are the ones that usually end up blaming the healer when they over extend.

[Koukin]

Not sure about Cleric, but Chanter's HoT is pretty useless anyway so I rarely use it.

[shiris]

Koukin said:

Not sure about Cleric, but Chanter's HoT is pretty useless anyway so I rarely use it.

Chanters HoT is actually better than Clerics. Yours heals for more and lasts like 8-10 seconds longer.

[Soran]

Health hots..mana pots, health Instant pots.

/thread

[Leiloni]

shiris said:

Chanters HoT is actually better than Clerics. Yours heals for more and lasts like 8-10 seconds longer.

Yea, this is why I tend to use the Chanter's HoT in a fight, solo or in a group, to keep people up who will be taking damage. Usually just the tank, but myself, the cleric, or a melee dps if they're taking damage. If someone takes more damage, well thats when you pull out the direct heals. The highest HoT pot does more hps then the Chanter's HoT by about 81hps, but is 18 secs shorter (so ours is almost twice as long). In otherwords, its nice for an emergency if you have too many mobs, or are running away. But in most situations I wouldn't waste the money because Chanter's HoT is better.

Although on the overwriting spell/pots thing, I don't notice people popping health pots much in groups. I've noticed between a Cleric and a Chanter, people tend to trust us and are used to the group environment by my level so they don't waste their pots. Although if I saw they had one and they didn't have much damage, I'd leave them alone, unless they took a lot of damage. But if I see a Cleric's HoT, yea I'll still overwrite it because like the above poster said, Chanter's is better.

This post has been edited by leslies383: 21 January 2010 - 11:42 AM

[ichigoo]

Thanks for the Info :P

[Dastion]

The Chanter's HoT lasts 8 seconds longer and heals for a little bit more per tick as others have said. But the Cleric HoT is actually helluva more efficient than the Chanter's is..and that's before you take into account the bonuses they get to their base heal values.

[Consilium]

Instant heal pot + hot is more healing per 30 seconds than HoT pot every 30 seconds so there is no reason for anyone in a group with a cleric or chanter to use HoT pots.

[Diao]

Consilium said:

Instant heal pot + hot is more healing per 30 seconds than HoT pot every 30 seconds so there is no reason for anyone in a group with a cleric or chanter to use HoT pots.

Unless you use Major Recovery Potions instead of Major Mana/Life Potions like my static does.. Good thing our chanter is willing to remember not to use hots on anyone.

[kr0sis]

Diao said:

Unless you use Major Recovery Potions instead of Major Mana/Life Potions like my static does.. Good thing our chanter is willing to remember not to use hots on anyone.

No, he's still right. Serum + HoT will heal more than potion alone. By using recovery pots you're just unnecessarily restricting your mana recovery in the same way. If recovering both with a single chug is still an important factor for you, you should be using recovery serums not potions.

Regarding the Chanter vs Cleric HoT, the Chanter one is only better up to level 40. The tooltip value of the chanter HoT will always appear superior, but by that time the Cleric's passive +heal% bonus will make theirs slightly better for HP/s. There are still valid reasons for a chanter to use their HoT, such as taking some of the healing burden off the Cleric, and reducing their enmity. But from a pure healing standpoint, after level 40 Chanters should not be replacing Cleric HoTs under the mistaken assumption that they heal more.

[Diao]

How is it restricting mana recovery? All pots except abyss potions share a CD. We use recovery hots because hot potions heal more than instant potions on the same cd. It's more mp returned over time. Using serums is a waste unless you need that hp/mp instantly. We tend to fight nonstop, so we need as much mana returned as possible. Please don't spread wrong information without confirming first.

The point is that generally you don't need the extra healing from that hot, and it shouldn't be used in most cases like ours as it's simply a waste of mp.

Word of Revival heals 1460 over 38 sec for 124mp, while a major recovery potion heals 1540 hp and 1600 mp in 20 sec, on a 30 sec cd. Healing Light heals for 1116, while an instant healing pot heals for 1410. It's far more efficient to use a major recovery and do a normal heal, than it is to use a hot and an instant pot.

This post has been edited by Diao: 28 January 2010 - 03:57 AM

[Eucos]

Diao said:

Unless you use Major Recovery Potions instead of Major Mana/Life Potions like my static does.. Good thing our chanter is willing to remember not to use hots on anyone.

^That's me!~

But yea, feels like our hot doesnt do much anyways. So I kinda stopped using it. I only really use it on myself and just heal others with recovery spell/healing light. Feels more effective. Plus I only heal in those needed situations, where the HoT would be useless anyways, unless I wanted them to die :D

[Anax]

Diao said:

How is it restricting mana recovery? All pots except abyss potions share a CD.

Mana Treatment does not share a Cooldown with the mana over time potions, but are mutually exclusive. Using Mana Treatment in conjunction with Serum returns more MP than a potion alone with the drawback being the ability's casting time. As a cleric I use Mana Serum, Mana Treatment and Penance independently to maximize mana recovery. Likewise, using Life Potions when they prelude a casted HoT might be counter productive if they result in less overall HP recovery than using Serum in conjuction with a casted HoT due to mutually exclusive overwrites.

Now, you can make the case that a Life Potion will recover more HP over time than Life Serum alone. Major Life Potion curing 154 HP per tick for 10 ticks would cure 1,540 HP over its duration, whereas a Major Life Serum will only recover 1,410 HP all in one shot. This assumes, of course, that the Major Life Serum won't bring you over your maximum HP (in which case I would argue that you should probably stop chugging pots reflexively and start waiting until you can actually use the HP, also you can feel free to share some of that apparently excess wealth with me.)

Consider, though, the financial implications. A Greater Life Serum would cure 1,160 HP over the course of 20 seconds. Using my current HoT as a 46 Cleric, I would restore 71 per tick with 15 ticks (we can keep the full duration even though my Cleric HoT lasts longer than the potion because my HoT times out within 30 seconds, the cooldown on a potion) for an additional 1065 HP, totaling at 2,225 HP restored, so about a 45% increase in healing at (server dependent) a lower financial cost to the person potting themselves to help the healer out and only a small MP cost to the healer, which could be even a more dramatic difference if you were to use the same tier of serum (I'm pulling punches with a nod to the fact that potions aren't free).

[Diao]

You're forgetting that the entire group is using Major Recovery Potions, which means they are regaining mana as well. If we stopped to cast Mana treatment for 4 seconds out of every 16 to maximize recovery, we'd be killing a lot slower. Major Recovery pots are the most efficient way for a group to maximize continuous killing.

[Macro]

imo reduce the hot duration and increase its healing per interval to make it more effective than a pot. i actually want it to be useful in pvp... QQ (rangers)

[kr0sis]

Diao said:

You're forgetting that the entire group is using Major Recovery Potions, which means they are regaining mana as well. If we stopped to cast Mana treatment for 4 seconds out of every 16 to maximize recovery, we'd be killing a lot slower. Major Recovery pots are the most efficient way for a group to maximize continuous killing.

The point that is serums combo; potions don't. When you're talking about performing the best you can, HoT + Mana Treatment + Recovery Serum will get you more HP and MP than any other combination.

In theory using recovery potions is slightly better than using just mana potions and HoTs, I'm not disagreeing with that. I simply think you're spending premium kinah and not getting premium performance. If your argument is simply that recov pots are better than mana pots and hots, I'm telling you that recovery serums in combination with hots and mana treatments are considerably more powerful.

The reality is in most group situations you don't need the double up performance of recovery pots. For grinding trash you really only need MP maintenance with spot HoTs on the 1-3 people taking damage. The best all around combination in terms of cost / usefullness balance imo, is to use greater mana pots for cheap mana maintenance while grinding trash with healer HoTs for mitigation on anyone taking damage (pre-40 chanter HoT is better, post-40 cleric one is). Keep major recovery serums for multi pulls or chain stuns in boss fights when you really need to help the healer out in a pinch. When you actually NEED the extra healing, the insta heal at the right moment will greatly outweigh having a potion-HoT on you randomly 2/3 of the time.

If you have the Calamot DP morph, greater healing pots are incredibly cost efficient. On my server they're 3-5x cheaper than major mana pots, and they restore 95% as much mana. They're even more cost efficient than mana treatment for me if I get a good deal on aether gems.