[Pondus]

whenever im tanking and a mace drops clerics always gets mad at me for rolling on it i know both can use it and that templar use swords to but i like maces better than swords and feel that maces stacked with atk stones is better than swords with crit.
i know we dont need the magic boost but the base atk is bigger than swords. and kromede wich i started to do runs on drops an extendable mace wich is great for pvp vs kiting classes
question is templars allowed to roll on maces without clerics whining? do we have the right to roll?:what:

[LastChime]

Have the right? Yes of course.

Mean they won't moan about it.....no.

If u think it's gonna be an issue discuss it with said cleric before hand, honestly kromede's in particular has more physical attack stats than the caster equivalent Dolan's, both are rare as hell tho anyhow so no point getting in a tiff over it heh. Last I checked clerics also use shields, so yeah fair game.

[voigt]

As a cleric I often bring this up before the group starts. Its something you should discuss before you get to the end of a dungeon and roll on items that are designed for more then one class. If you truly feel like you have to roll on the only item a cleric would use then that cleric has a right to know before he wastes his time. And he can leave the group and not heal you.

Honestly though out of everything the boss drops why should one class get to roll on two or more items while others only get one?

Staff vs Mace comes to mind but generally I leave staffs for Chanters

This is how I understand the loot priority:

Sword = Temp
2hander = Glad
Dagger = Assassin
Bow = Ranger
Staff = Chanter
Mace = Cleric
Shield = Templar or Cleric (depending on stats)
Book/Orb = SM and Sorc (heard arguments either way)

[shaded]

Are gladiators allowed to roll for 1h swords over tanks just because they use dual wield stigma?

Are chanters allowed to roll for maces over clerics just because they can't handle a staff?

Are clerics allowed to roll for staffs over chanters for the same reason?


I'd say no. 3 times. Kromede actually dropped the mace for us but I would never even think of stealing that thing from my cleric, even though it's better than Inferno. It's their main weapon. Ours are swords.

[unforgivenn]

I completely disagree. I am a 42 Temp now and after doing the Xeno quest for my yellow weapon I was all about the mace over the sword. If the stats are what you are looking for and you can use the darn thing you go ahead and roll on it. I think a lot of maces are better than swords for temps. Sounds like that cleric was just pissed cause he lost the roll. Ehh that's why I always run with the same groups of people. We all understand the truths about rolling etiquette.

[Airstu]

I agree with unforgivenn. I like my Kromede's Warhammer. Was the cleric pissed? Probably. We determined at the start of the run you can roll on what you can use. We would have clashed over the shield as well and the sin would have rolled on the sword. And thats not even getting into the extendable weapon discussion.

[Terhix]

Clerics don't really need m.boost either, at least not for their heals, once you hit 45 and get magic smash (if you want to do so), you have full rights to roll on a mace and tell the cleric to stfu, unless it has some stupid stats like +mp +concentration.

[Undisputed]

Thankfully I run FT with the same people most times and any new people we bring in are told exactly what they are entitled to roll on especially when it comes to Kromede weapons.

Then again I have as of yesterday stopped running FT officially until L36 as I have had zero luck on ANY gold weapon drops... not for me not for my friends or random pugs. *sigh* I am cursed...

Sipus has never dropped the shield either so yeah... I am happy with my Expert Noble Shield and Offering *cough* green sword.. for the time being anyway.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, Kromede's mace is a yes for Templars, it's got physical stats AND it's extendable? what's not to like? Even my cleric buddy says they will take the mace but won't actually ever do any melee with it. So to each their own but you have EVERY right to roll on the mace. Greatswords on the other hand well.. that's a different story. Since I run with the same gladiator each time I will never roll on the GS over him.

[shaded]

Try viewing the other side of the medal.

If the sword dropped, could the cleric roll for it? No, it's for us. So we'd pass on the mace.
If the dagger dropped, could we roll for it? No, it's for Assasins. So they'd pass on the sword.
If the polearm dropped, could we roll for it? No, it's for Gladiators, So they'd pass on the sword, too.

See a pattern here?

[Terhix]

shaded said:

Try viewing the other side of the medal.

If the sword dropped, could the cleric roll for it? No, it's for us. So we'd pass on the mace.
If the dagger dropped, could we roll for it? No, it's for Assasins. So they'd pass on the sword.
If the polearm dropped, could we roll for it? No, it's for Gladiators, So they'd pass on the sword, too.

See a pattern here?

No. There is a whole bunch of sword wielding assassins, or at least wielding swords in offhand. We either share swords with them (and dual wielding gladiators) or a mace with clerics. Post 45 with magic smash templars need maces, it's just the best weapon for the build.

[thepyro1188]

Terhix said:

No. There is a whole bunch of sword wielding assassins, or at least wielding swords in offhand. We either share swords with them (and dual wielding gladiators) or a mace with clerics. Post 45 with magic smash templars need maces, it's just the best weapon for the build.

Endgame assassins will almost always use sword because of the attack boost over daggers. It is much easier to socket for crit than attack.

I have passed on two swords even though they were both a big upgrade over Xenophons. The assassin in my party desperately needed the weapon upgrade so I passed him both weapons. While it has become difficult to hold aggro even when hes just autoattacking, I find that our DP runs have become exponentially fast.

Gladiators should not dual-wield and roll on anything other than spears.

Templars should not roll on maces unless the cleric doesn't want.

[RamzaBehoulve]

Terhix said:

No. There is a whole bunch of sword wielding assassins, or at least wielding swords in offhand. We either share swords with them (and dual wielding gladiators) or a mace with clerics. Post 45 with magic smash templars need maces, it's just the best weapon for the build.

I'm not so sure about that. Maces, even with full attack are going to be inferior average physical damage to swords with soft caped crit and rest in attack. Not to mention maybe wasted stats like MP or Concentration.

Now, is boosting only 2 abilities, one of which being on a 2min CD really that useful? Especially with PvP damage reduction taken into account.

By all means, using a Mace that's better than Sword is the way to go, but sooner or later you'll get the top swords and it's going to be better than the top maces.

And Xenophon's Sword vs Xenophon's Mace is more about extra damage vs extendable. And even in that case I've come to the conclusion I'll still have 9 levels to grind and I'll be spending far more time hittings mobs than Asmodians...so Sword it will be.

This post has been edited by RamzaBehoulve: 04 November 2009 - 06:34 AM

[thepyro1188]

RamzaBehoulve said:

I'm not so sure about that. Maces, even with full attack are going to be inferior average physical damage to swords with soft caped crit and rest in attack. Not to mention maybe wasted stats like MP or Concentration.

Now, is boosting only 2 abilities, one of which being on a 2min CD really that useful? Especially with PvP damage reduction taken into account.

By all means, using a Mace that's better than Sword is the way to go, but sooner or later you'll get the top sword and it's going to be better than the top mace.

I couldn't have put it better myself. The magic boost you gain from having the mace will only increase the damage of those two skills while sacrificing the damage boost in your other skills. Using a sword will boost ALL your attacks, except those two.

But, it's really up to the player to decide which path he wants to choose. Just know that sword Templars will always triumph.

[Terhix]

RamzaBehoulve said:

I'm not so sure about that. Maces, even with full attack are going to be inferior average physical damage to swords with soft caped crit and rest in attack. Not to mention maybe wasted stats like MP or Concentration.

Now, is boosting only 2 abilities, one of which being on a 2min CD really that useful? Especially with PvP damage reduction taken into account.

By all means, using a Mace that's better than Sword is the way to go, but sooner or later you'll get the top sword and it's going to be better than the top mace.

It's worth it for Magic Smash alone. Yes, it's only one ability, but it's the highest and most reliable burst damage you will ever have as a shield wielding templar, I hit people for 1k in pvp, and my mace isn't really good to begin with. Without a mace, magic smash is ****.

edit: also, there are maces like this one, if you ever see a cleric rolling on that one, you need to change a cleric.

[Sera]

Magic Smash.

Yeah, I don't wanna hear any cleric b1tchin'

We can roll on maces.

[Warfire]

I don't understand some of the viewpoints on this particular topic. It's no reason to flame, yell or jump up and down or shout, but it does beggar belief.

The real pattern here really isn't 1 class is for 1 weapon as suggested in the last post. It comes down to will you use it and should you be allowed to.

In my kin we run FT groups regularly, though we have yet to see a Gold Drop.

The usual make up is: Templar, Cleric, Chanter, Sin, Sin, Cleric (as we tend to group together a lot)

1 cleric heals, 1 does dps.

Both sins have said quite honestly that when they max phys crit with stones they will take the dagger but prefer the sword. Fair enough (I am the tank btw).

As far as we are all concerned, we know what each person would like or what each of us would use. That is pretty much the end of story.

3 will roll on Mace, 3 will roll on the sword, 2 on the dagger, 1 on the 2hs(only becuase only 1 can use), 1 on the staff, and 3 on the Sipus Shield.

We all respect eachother and have played MMO's for years with eachother so there is no confusion.

As long as there is a viable reason why you would like to roll on an item then you should roll if it is a primary use. It's not a greed roll, it's simply about what you see as your personal build and what you would like to include in your build.

The same should be for any group and any cleric that says "I am leaving I want the mace to be mine if it drops" should reconsider why they group with people. Honest people share and only roll if they have good reason, not just to step on others toes. If someone in the group wants to use the item, they should have a right to roll on it fair and square.

If they can't use it then yes they should abstain in favour of those who can use it, not that all groups follow that policy. but most I have seen are very respectful when it comes to class useable items.

This post has been edited by Warfire: 04 November 2009 - 07:42 AM

[RamzaBehoulve]

Terhix said:

It's worth it for Magic Smash alone. Yes, it's only one ability, but it's the highest and most reliable burst damage you will ever have as a shield wielding templar, I hit people for 1k in pvp, and my mace isn't really good to begin with. Without a mace, magic smash is ****.

edit: also, there are maces like this one, if you ever see a cleric rolling on that one, you need to change a cleric.

Even then, I'm pretty sure the combined extra damage from all abilities in one DPS rotation with the Sword will cover for the MB on the mace for that one ability...

Afterall, MS alone won't kill anyone, you'll have to do at least a full DPS skill rotation too to kill your target.

I really think the main point of that attack is the range and the stun, not the damage, but to each his own. I'll craft myself the lvl 45 blue sword and mace when I finally get there and compare them against each other and we'll see if MB really is that much of a big deal.

It's really a matter of how much +attack or +crit (and even accuracy) your sacrifice on the weapon for that extra MB. I really doubt MB is free in the stat budget of an item.

PS : Menotio's Warhammer is retardly good compared to the sword, I wouldn't be surprised if we see its stats changed in the future to something more Cleric-like

This post has been edited by RamzaBehoulve: 04 November 2009 - 06:52 AM

[Terhix]

RamzaBehoulve said:

Even then, I'm pretty sure the combined extra damage from all abilities in one DPS rotation with the Sword will cover for the MB on the mace for that one ability...

No it's not, and I'm not "pretty sure" about that, I'm 100% sure as I've tested it.

edit:

RamzaBehoulve said:

I really think the main point of that attack is the range and the stun, not the damage, but to each his own.

Talking about Magic Smash here, not Divine Justice.

[RamzaBehoulve]

Terhix said:

Talking about Magic Smash here, not Divine Justice.

Good point, always mix them up, thanks.

[Terhix]

BTW, as far as m.boost coming for free, swords get +2 attack per upgrade, maces get +3 attack and +20 magic boost per upgrade, it really is for free. The only thing that makes sword a better melee weapon is the crit multiplier really, which doesn't make that much of a difference when your biggest nuke is a spell anyway. Menotios's Warhammer is only one example, there is a whole bunch of maces that are clearly melee oriented, and as such can be considered "templar weapon".