[Finrod]

So I just hit level 50 on my Gladiator, and while randomly chatting in legion chat I posted my attack number of 466. Surprisingly, a level 50 Templar in my legion who usually beats me in duels posted that he had 458, only 8 points less.

First of all, these are straight up duels, no pots, no scrolls, no buffs. I outdamage him (or so I thought) but it appears all his defense and heals outpace me. I have to wonder though, am I really outdamaging him? Temps have an ability off knockdown that blows ours away. He crits on mobs for high 3000's to low 4000's all the time. Crip Cut and Drng Blow can't touch that.

So are we really the high damage plate melee class? Or can a damage based two-handed wielding Templar set up to do damage outperform us, and have better defense besides.

What makes us better?

[Andante]

hmmm... aerial lockdown? =P

but in all seriousness gladiators are a really good class, the offensive potential and gear scaling of a gladiator is insane... assuming the glad can stay alive long enough.

[The Cow King]

You have aoe knockdowns. Temp is single target dps only.

[Growl]

(With the right[best] gear), Gladiator can shine against enemy groups. Other than that, im yet to find out.

[Finrod]

Hhmm, that's a lot of loosy goosy stuff. Aerial lockdown of course, can miss, and it also doesn't work in the air. One ability, especially a flawed one, doesn't narrow the gap.

Same goes for AoE. It's great stuff no doubt, but aren't we the melee class? Doesn't the Templar get superior defense to offset lower offense? Shouldn't we have better single target damage as well?

They are also gear dependant and scale better with better gear.

If their single target offense is as good as ours, then why play a Glad?

This post has been edited by Finrod: 13 December 2009 - 11:30 AM

[Ephrum]

Considering they are a single target class, thats not a fair comparison.


Secondly, glads are a DPS class. Anyone that tells you a temp can dps just as well as a glad is full of it. Yes they can put up some decent numbers, but they need to be specced for damage and have insanely good gear.

Their only high damage skill is break power, which only works on KD's. We have both crip cut and draining blow, as well as Precision Cut and Severe Precision Cut. Ontop of that, we have skills like Daevic Fury, as well as Zikel's threat, and beserking. Along with that, there's Severe weakening blow, and weakening severe blow, and piercing wave, all pdef debuffers.


And if you meant Darkkyn, you also have to look at gear. You have a blue level 45 spear, while he has the gold crafted 45 GS.

This post has been edited by Ephrum: 13 December 2009 - 02:06 PM

[Finrod]

Yes, I did mean Darkkyn. And I recognize that we have different weapons. But I have seen his damage numbers, and they are very impressive. I strongly suspect that the Gladiator gets the nod at the end of the day, but I don't think folks realize how narrow that margin is when competing against a damage specced two-handed Templar.

Dark has his PvE tanking gear and his two-hander damage gear. And he cranks out some pretty good damage. He is one of my senior officers, has been with DS for a long time, and I know him well. He knows how to play and set up his toon quite well. I would say that Glads would be surprised out how much damage he can deal, and his defense is excellent.

[Sovietz]

Doin it wrong brah. I have about 100 more attack then you with aions str up and I haven't begun socketing attack yet. Seen glads with 100 more then me. Get better wep. Crits get big. I average 4k crits with precision cut. In pvp I've seen as high as 3k. Crip cut crits for round 3k in pve.
Temps don't have a snowballs chance in hell of outdamaging us.

[isanti13]

Grats on 50 Finrod!

I just got 45 with my templar and am using the blue expert attack speed greatsword... and it's awesome. My crits for Break Power are about 2700 and that should take a big jump next level when I get the next stigma for BP. Temps can put up the high numbers if they are geared for it, but they have nothing for AoE. Glad's AoE, in my opinion, makes up for their less survivability issues that they have when compared to a templar.

The templar is a lot of fun but part of me wishes I would have leveled up a gladiator for the increased damage/aoe although it is really nice to a hard mofo to kill :)

[Zookz]

Templars have high spike damage.

• Break Power III - Skills - Aion - Break Power, super spike knockdown damage. Tends to crit for 2500+ at level 40.

• Shining Slash III - Skills - Aion - Extreme spike damage. At level 40 and I've seen it crit for 400 as well as 2100.

• Punishment IV - Skills - Aion - Just as spiky as Shining Slash, but slightly higher damage., and tends to lean more towards higher damage then Shining Slash. Typically crits between 800 to 2500+ for me at level 40.

• Empyrean Fury I - Skills - Aion - High damage boost on a very short CD. Would make the already spiky damage attacks more of a spike very often.

Gladiators will still always do better dps.

Gladiators will still always be better at AoE.

Gladiators will still always have better CC power (templars get inescapable judgment, and divine justice; nothing else while using a 2H beyond the internal 2H knockdown that glads would get also)



Though, if a templar was going to dps, I doubt he'd be ****, he'd most likely be a fine dps really; it's just the templars extra "tools" are all built for defense, not offense. This is where the dispaeities make glads better dps and templars better tanks.

But as seen, gladiators and templars can both tank and dps fine, they are just better in their respective roles due to all the gimmick moves such as Iron Skin I - Skills - Aion / Zikel's Shield I - Skills - Aion for templars, and Aion's Strength I - Skills - Aion / Zikel's Threat I - Skills - Aion for gladiators.

This post has been edited by Zookz: 21 December 2009 - 04:38 AM

[Aurelion]

Templars and Glads are heavily equipment dependant.

So, either way, good equipped ones pwn the badly equipped ones.

[Qwal]

templar with 2h can put some serious dmg if speced right with stigmas. Gladitors do more dmg still ofc, but the templar is not far behind (with as you say best gear).

[RamzaBehoulve]

We do less than Gladiators, but not much less.

The difference is more apparent on long boss fights, but the shorter a fight is, the less difference you'll see between the two.

I often kill normal lvl 49 mobs faster than Gladiators and Assassins next to me. Fact is, when a mob dies faster than you can do a whole skill rotation, then you hit the cap of killing speed, you just can't go much faster than that, regardless of class.

[parrishilton]

Finrod said:

So I just hit level 50 on my Gladiator, and while randomly chatting in legion chat I posted my attack number of 466. Surprisingly, a level 50 Templar in my legion who usually beats me in duels posted that he had 458, only 8 points less.

First of all, these are straight up duels, no pots, no scrolls, no buffs. I outdamage him (or so I thought) but it appears all his defense and heals outpace me. I have to wonder though, am I really outdamaging him? Temps have an ability off knockdown that blows ours away. He crits on mobs for high 3000's to low 4000's all the time. Crip Cut and Drng Blow can't touch that.

So are we really the high damage plate melee class? Or can a damage based two-handed wielding Templar set up to do damage outperform us, and have better defense besides.

What makes us better?

I really cant explain this cause you just kind of have to experience it for your self but once you are geared its a completely different ball game

The single most important piece of gear being your weapon, when i went from the gold lv 46 plat coin greatsword to zapiel spear the difference in damage was night and day

that being said temp is one of the worst possible fights for a glad simply because of all the defensive crap they can pop but if you get your self geared very well you will not be dissapointed with ur glad

[Unddu]

cheapaionkinah said:

Doesn't the Templar get superior defense to offset lower offense?

No. Not really.

[Deliq]

parrishilton said:

I really cant explain this cause you just kind of have to experience it for your self but once you are geared its a completely different ball game

The single most important piece of gear being your weapon, when i went from the gold lv 46 plat coin greatsword to zapiel spear the difference in damage was night and day

that being said temp is one of the worst possible fights for a glad simply because of all the defensive crap they can pop but if you get your self geared very well you will not be dissapointed with ur glad

Templars are actually easy for a skilled glad. All you need to do is to watch his buff bar. When he uses reflect damage, iron skin, or "I block everything now!" DP self-buff, just pull out your bow and kite him till those buffs wear off (for example ironskin reduces incoming damage by 50% but lasts only for 30s and has 10 min cooldown). Also save aerial lockdown for a right moment, preferably when hes at about 20% HP and preparing to use his full self-heal DP skill. Berserking is a must against any templar and if everything else fails, try daevic fury or blessing of whatever 50 self buff, you should slice him like nothing. Also dualwield > polearm against templars.

Biggest problem with templars usually is to kill them before they run away (it can be a real pain in the ***). Try ankle snare or shoot him repeatedly from bow and pray youll be able to kill him in time.

[2Luke2]

Deliq said:

Templars are actually easy for a skilled glad. All you need to do is to watch his buff bar. When he uses reflect damage, iron skin, or "I block everything now!" DP self-buff, just pull out your bow and kite him till those buffs wear off (for example ironskin reduces incoming damage by 50% but lasts only for 30s and has 10 min cooldown). Also save aerial lockdown for a right moment, preferably when hes at about 20% HP and preparing to use his full self-heal DP skill. Berserking is a must against any templar and if everything else fails, try daevic fury or blessing of whatever 50 self buff, you should slice him like nothing. Also dualwield > polearm against templars.

Biggest problem with templars usually is to kill them before they run away (it can be a real pain in the ***). Try ankle snare or shoot him repeatedly from bow and pray youll be able to kill him in time.

I wouldn't say easy, but a good fight with skill being close on both sides of the coin. Just to let you know though, we don't have a reflect damage skill, and also if someone is using the blocking DP buff... they just suck hehe... Lastly I'm not sure how you as a melee is going to kite another melee? IJ for when you run, and then prayer of freedom when you ankle snare. Anyway not taking a shot at you, but I just think the fight would be a pretty good fight with both close to the same gear and skill levels.

[parrishilton]

Deliq said:

Templars are actually easy for a skilled glad. All you need to do is to watch his buff bar. When he uses reflect damage, iron skin, or "I block everything now!" DP self-buff, just pull out your bow and kite him till those buffs wear off (for example ironskin reduces incoming damage by 50% but lasts only for 30s and has 10 min cooldown). Also save aerial lockdown for a right moment, preferably when hes at about 20% HP and preparing to use his full self-heal DP skill. Berserking is a must against any templar and if everything else fails, try daevic fury or blessing of whatever 50 self buff, you should slice him like nothing. Also dualwield > polearm against templars.

Biggest problem with templars usually is to kill them before they run away (it can be a real pain in the ***). Try ankle snare or shoot him repeatedly from bow and pray youll be able to kill him in time.

thanks for all the unnecessary tips and stratagies do you think im a noob or something?

Heres the facts fighting a templar is a huge pain they take a long time to kill and if they are losing then they will just run away which is another huge pain

Its simply a crappy fight for a glad anyway you look at it

[Soran]

Unddu said:

No. Not really.

Empyrean armor?
Iron Skin?
Full Heal after all of this?

Or better yet, when you see a zerg just pop your 4kDP, aether armor, and stand there invincible while the entire alliance does zero damage to you and you laugh as you return out.

Yes templars do get much superior deffense. When the best geared glad on my server (zapiels spear, full golds including 3 piece of elite lvl 50 gear, paralyze godstone) goes up against one of the best geared templars on the server, (full miragents, zapiels shield, excellent gold accesories) it is a toss up who wins however the glad usually loses.

[Jeric]

2Luke2 said:

I wouldn't say easy, but a good fight with skill being close on both sides of the coin. Just to let you know though, we don't have a reflect damage skill, and also if someone is using the blocking DP buff... they just suck hehe... Lastly I'm not sure how you as a melee is going to kite another melee? IJ for when you run, and then prayer of freedom when you ankle snare. Anyway not taking a shot at you, but I just think the fight would be a pretty good fight with both close to the same gear and skill levels.

Never lost to a templar. Kitting is indeed the right strategy against them and believe me a skilled glad can kite any templar just fine. Not only can we use a bow (which has a chance to stun), but we also have ranged attacks which have a chance to KD and slow down. Kitting with the bow and switching to the PA when my ranged skills are ready has always worked for me against a templar. Once his buffs run out I take the fight to him and finish him off.